# Rubio won't back his own immigration bill **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 5, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242 "2013-06-05T21:24:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/261 "2013-06-23T12:39:13Z")
I suppose they might, by why not deploy an economy of language, and simply say “No one has standing to sue us”? Have they some compelling reason to admit illegality, other than a generous impulse to make a certain SDMB poster happy? Perhaps, if you have some time, you will point out to us where they made such an explicit admission? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 23, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/262 "2013-06-23T14:58:20Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I don’t think standing should be ignored, just observing that standing tends to come into play when the government knows it acted outside the law. > > The administration’s argument is, “Yeah, what we did is illegal, but no one has standing to sue us.” And that is just the same as trying to find excuses for your sources giving you only half of the information, when one looks at the big picture it is clear that the limits of this lawsuit where already there. What I always see as funny is that the ones that followed that trashy bit of news is that the followers of those sources \*\*\*never \*\*\*seem to think that they should be upset with those sources for manipulating them and to never take it with [del]the birthers[/del] people like Kobach and the right wing media that made all that noise that “this is a sure and definitive thing that will stop Obama’s immigration moves”. Well, it was not. And indeed anyone following and not demanding better information from their sources is indeed just embracing the fame of those sources that should never be trusted or used for information. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/263 "2013-06-24T00:11:59Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I don’t think standing should be ignored, just observing that standing tends to come into play when the government knows it acted outside the law. > > The administration’s argument is, “Yeah, what we did is illegal, but no one has standing to sue us.” I like how you can ignore parts of the law to make your argument, I really need to learn how to be so nefarious 😛 ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/264 "2013-06-24T04:06:59Z")
Brad Plumer with an analysis of the CBO analysis: > **[Here’s how the U.S. population would change under immigration reform](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/06/20/immigration-projections/?variant=f27f5ed60de5b498)** > > The United States would be adding 36 million new immigrants over the next two decades — a figure comparable to the population of Canada. The upshot is that we’ll import 36 million people, mostly low-skilled workers, over the next twenty years. There will be 7.7 million currently illegal immigrants eligible for legalization, which will leave us with a permanent illegal population of 5.5 million. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/265 "2013-06-24T04:29:30Z")
Lots of ifs there, and there is a contradiction, didn’t you claim that the numbers under the plan would be for less immigrants allowed in the future and therefor the Democrats would be criticized for being misleading to the minorities? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/266 "2013-06-24T05:05:30Z")
Turns out the limitations on workers, as with everything else, was just a bone to throw to labor. The CBO report also predicts increased unemployment and reduced wages. Although it does predict better economic growth and deficit reduction. No wonder many conservatives support immigration reform. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/267 "2013-06-24T05:08:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Turns out the limitations on workers, as with everything else, was just a bone to throw to labor. > > The CBO report also predicts increased unemployment and reduced wages. Although it does predict better economic growth and deficit reduction. No wonder many conservatives support immigration reform. We already know how reliable your sources are, give them up. > **[Right-Wing Media Misuse CBO Report To Attack Economic Benefits Of Immigration...](https://www.mediamatters.org/laura-ingraham/right-wing-media-misuse-cbo-report-attack-economic-benefits-immigration-reform)** > > Right-wing media outlets cherry-picked data from a Congressional Budget Office (CBO) report on the Senate's immigration reform proposal to incorrectly claim that the bill would hurt American workers. In fact, the CBO report found that the Senate... > [@](#): > > Right-wing media outlets cherry-picked data from a Congressional Budget Office (CBO) report on the Senate’s immigration reform proposal to incorrectly claim that the bill would hurt American workers. In fact, the CBO report found that the Senate immigration reform bill would have temporary and small negative effects but over the long term would greatly benefit both American workers and the economy, which is reinforced by past studies. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/268 "2013-06-24T05:13:22Z")
Another side to that is those who would simply love to “legitimize” migrant workers and keep their pay level about where it is, while at the same time avoiding the dreadful prospect of citizenry and its attendant interference. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/269 "2013-06-24T06:23:54Z")
So it’s okay to temporarily cause pain to workers in the name of immigration reform, but not okay in the name of deficit reduction(which also helps employment in the long term while hurting it in the short term). ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/270 "2013-06-24T07:48:00Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > So it’s okay to temporarily cause pain to workers in the name of immigration reform, but not okay in the name of deficit reduction(which also helps employment in the long term while hurting it in the short term). Translation: “I ran out of ideas.” Who said it was OK? The current deficit cuts are the result of the Republicans preferring to go for sequestration instead of keeping the recovery going. As pointed in another thread, the House Republicans have no time for jobs, but plenty of time to vote for abortion restrictions and to uselessly vote against Obamacare, again. ---
**Author:** ![Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omg_a_Black_Conservative)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/271 "2013-06-24T21:35:01Z")
Yeah, see. Republicans have passed numerous bills aimed at the economy that Reid refuses to bring to a vote. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/272 "2013-06-24T21:52:24Z")
Such as? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/273 "2013-06-24T22:04:45Z")
Well, they were _aimed_ at the economy! Kind of like Werner von Braun, aimed for the stars, hit London. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 24, 2013, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/274 "2013-06-24T23:53:45Z")
> [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Yeah, see. Republicans have passed numerous bills aimed at the economy that Reid refuses to bring to a vote. How nice for you to notice that bit, BTW are you willing to ignore what the sources that adaher is basing their latest criticism against the immigration bill? NumbersUSA and Kobach are not what you would like to use as champions. [http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/publications/the-nativist-lobby-three-faces-of-intolerance#.Ucjawtjy120](http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/publications/the-nativist-lobby-three-faces-of-intolerance#.Ucjawtjy120) > [@](#): > > Like CIS, NumbersUSA bills itself as an organization that operates on its own and rejects racism completely. In fact, NumbersUSA was for the first five years of its existence a program of U.S. Inc., a foundation run by Tanton to fund numerous nativist groups, and its leader was an employee of that foundation for a decade. He helped edit Tanton’s racist journal, The Social Contract, and was personally introduced by Tanton to a leader of the Pioneer Fund. He also edited a book by Tanton and another Tanton employee that was banned by the Canadian border officials as hate literature, and on one occasion spoke to the Council of Conservative Citizens, a hate group which has called blacks “a retrograde species of humanity.” [http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/immigration/news/2012/06/26/11661/the-top-5-things-you-need-to-know-about-kris-kobach/](http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/immigration/news/2012/06/26/11661/the-top-5-things-you-need-to-know-about-kris-kobach/) > [@](#): > > Here are the top five things you should really know about Kobach: > > 1. He works for a racist hate group whose stated purpose is to reduce the number of people of color in the United States. Kris Kobach is counsel for the Immigration Reform Law Institute—the legal arm of the Federation for American Immigration Reform, which the Southern Poverty Law Center labels a hate group. Kobach’s boss at the Immigration Reform Law Institute, Michael Hethmon, openly argues that the United States’ transition to a country where the majority of its citizens are people of color will lead to violence. And the founder of Federation for American Immigration Reform, John Tanton, wrote, “I‘ve come to the point of view that for European-American society and culture to persist requires a European-American majority and a clear one at that.” > > … > > 1. He’s a birther. In his bid for Kansas secretary of State, Kobach raised the question of whether President Barack Obama’s short-form birth certificate was sufficient to prove his citizenship. Later, when called on it, Kobach backtracked and said that he believed in the president’s citizenship but still maintained that questioning his birth certificate was valid. BTW I did hint to adaher on the birther like effort seen here, it is no coincidence that they have a connection to one of the most ridiculous conspiracy theories of the 21st century. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/275 "2013-06-25T00:36:55Z")
Actually I quoted the CBO, not the Heritage study. The CBO is the one that says there will be a short term increase in unemployment and a drop in wages. It’s a nice racket liberals have going though. Import poor people, then complain about inequality. It’s brilliant! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/276 "2013-06-25T00:42:46Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Actually I quoted the CBO, not the Heritage study. The CBO is the one that says there will be a short term increase in unemployment and a drop in wages. > > It’s a nice racket liberals have going though. Import poor people, then complain about inequality. It’s brilliant! The racket attempted here is that it is not the CBO what I’m talking about here. Deal with your sorry sources. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/277 "2013-06-25T01:46:48Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > …It’s a nice racket liberals have going though. Import poor people, then complain about inequality. It’s brilliant! “Import” is a positive action, one makes an effort to “import”. The contemptible inference is that Democrats actively make such effort. Point of fact, what mostly happens is desperate people give more money than they can afford to unreliable criminals in order to risk their lives in the Godforsaken Desert. And maybe get to wash some dishes. Ain’t about equality. About decency. But maybe I should consider relocating further north, I’m about four hours from the Canadian Border, maybe I can get it on some of the fence building action. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/278 "2013-06-25T05:02:17Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > “Import” is a positive action, one makes an effort to “import”. The contemptible inference is that Democrats actively make such effort. Well, yes, we do, but that’s got absolutely nothing to do with the immigration problem, believe me, it’s just for the meat (and blood for the Jews, of course). ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/279 "2013-06-25T05:16:41Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > “Import” is a positive action, one makes an effort to “import”. The contemptible inference is that Democrats actively make such effort. Point of fact, what mostly happens is desperate people give more money than they can afford to unreliable criminals in order to risk their lives in the Godforsaken Desert. And maybe get to wash some dishes. > > Ain’t about equality. About decency. > > But maybe I should consider relocating further north, I’m about four hours from the Canadian Border, maybe I can get it on some of the fence building action. Speaking of Canada, why don’t we just adopt Canada’s immigration policy? Theirs is sane, and they manage to enforce it. ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [June 25, 2013, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/280 "2013-06-25T11:09:18Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Speaking of Canada, why don’t we just adopt Canada’s immigration policy? Theirs is sane, and they manage to enforce it. _Sigh_ Yeah, we’re their only land-connected neighbor… Pretty easy to enforce immigration when people more or less have to come through control points. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242.md?page=15)