# Rubio won't back his own immigration bill **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 5, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242 "2013-06-05T21:24:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/301 "2013-06-28T05:18:56Z")
The House won’t pass the Senate bill, so let’s see what you’ve got. Make us pay in 2014 if you can. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/302 "2013-06-28T05:57:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The House won’t pass the Senate bill, so let’s see what you’ve got. Make us pay in 2014 if you can. Once again, demanding an idiot move by the Republican House is not a good platform. Elsewhere you claim that Republicans will not resort to stupid moves, but here you do expect them, I also do, but as the Republicans in the Senate showed, there is a limit on how far the Republican leadership will pander for the Tea Party, I’m looking forward for the fireworks among the Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/303 "2013-06-28T05:58:39Z")
The House will pass a bill stronger on enforcement and the two will have to be reconciled, and in the end, the GOP will get credit for passing a bill that actually reforms our immigration system. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/304 "2013-06-28T06:02:27Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The House will pass a bill stronger on enforcement and the two will have to be reconciled, and in the end, the GOP will get credit for passing a bill that actually reforms our immigration system. I see more unionized border patrol agents. In any case, I expect the reconciliation to once again show that, as even McCain told us, the ones opposing the immigration bill, even after all the amendments that were added already, is opposing this for other reasons. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/305 "2013-06-28T06:21:51Z")
There are many reasons to oppose it or support it, as Bernie Sanders showed. even the supporters of immigration reform have to admit it will harm low wage workers. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 6:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/306 "2013-06-28T06:27:13Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > There are many reasons to oppose it or support it, as Bernie Sanders showed. even the supporters of immigration reform have to admit it will harm low wage workers. And as pointed before, Bernie Sanders on the whole supports it. Point being that once again, your sorry racist, crackpot and extremists sources are just seeding FUD. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/307 "2013-06-28T07:03:20Z")
You have the vast majority supporting legalization, they just want the actual laws enforced and the immigration system actually reformed. The CBO projects 5.5 million illegal immigrants in this country 20 years after the bill passes. There’s two options: Deport them, or leave them here in limbo, because we are never, ever, doing this again. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/308 "2013-06-28T07:10:43Z")
And of course, pretending that all will ignore that you have depended on racist, crackpot and extremist sources will work. Not gonna happen. The Republicans that are in House expecting that the right wing bubble of information will make them sound smart are for a very rude awakening. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/309 "2013-06-28T07:41:10Z")
you wish. The Republicans were actually more amenable to voting for this bill a few weeks ago: until they heard from their constituents. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/310 "2013-06-28T07:57:55Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > you wish. I do not wish, you pointed at Kobach and NumbersUSA, somehow you want to pretend those racist sources are not a problem. But that figures. > [@adaher](#): > > The Republicans were actually more amenable to voting for this bill a few weeks ago: until they heard from their constituents. Once again, the senate has more human Republicans, we are talking now about the inhuman more close to their constituency House republicans now. Once again, I expect the sources they depend on to make them look like fools on national television and the internet. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/311 "2013-06-28T11:45:30Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > you wish. The Republicans were actually more amenable to voting for this bill a few weeks ago: until they heard from their constituents. Is that what they call the voices in their heads now? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/312 "2013-06-28T15:36:10Z")
I know, the sound of constituents, Democrats wouldn’t know anything about that. They’d have to hold town halls and then actually listen. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/313 "2013-06-28T15:51:43Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I know, the sound of constituents, Democrats wouldn’t know anything about that. They’d have to hold town halls and then actually listen. Sounds better than listening to the astroturf tea party. [http://climatecrocks.com/2013/02/19/study-links-tobacco-tea-party-climate-denial-and-fox-news/](http://climatecrocks.com/2013/02/19/study-links-tobacco-tea-party-climate-denial-and-fox-news/) > [@](#): > > \*\*Study Links Tobacco, Tea Party, Climate Denial,… and Fox News. \*\* > > The anti-science movement is rooted in the decades old realization among conservative corporate and political entities, that the findings of science were not always compatible with the economic interests of the wealthy and powerful. (read this post first for background. If you still have 17 minutes, the video above is worth your time) > > The publication of an exhaustive investigation into the origins of a tobacco funded anti-science movement got headlines last week, as clear lines can now be drawn between corporate pirates like David Koch, the Tobacco barons, and “grassroots” movements like the Tea Party, all of which are prominent in the climate denial movement. > [@](#): > > UC San Francisco: > > ``` > The study, which appears on Feb. 8 in the journal Tobacco Control, shows that rhetoric and imagery evoking the 1773 Boston Tea Party were used by tobacco industry representatives as early as the 1980s as part of an industry-created “smokers’ rights’’ public relations campaign opposing increased cigarette taxes and other anti-smoking initiatives. > > From previously secret tobacco industry documents available at the UCSF Legacy Tobacco Documents Library, IRS filings and other publicly available documents, the study authors traced a decades-long chain of personal, corporate and financial relationships between tobacco companies, tobacco industry lobbying and public relations firms and nonprofit organizations associated with the Tea Party. > > ``` > [@](#): > > News of the study has touched a nerve on the right wing blogosphere, and prompted an outraged harrumph from Fox News > [@](#): > > So it’s delightful to find this paragraph in the study, > > > [@](#): > > > > …the conservative media, including Fox News and the network of conservative talk radio hosts and bloggers, provided a unified forum to amplify these messages. The tobacco industry has played a part in building this network, both by working with Roger Ailes (who subsequently became Fox News CEO) and funding the National Journalism Center which ‘train[s] budding journalists in free market political and economic principles.’ > > The statement is backed by copious footnotes and links to original tobacco industry documents from the Legacy Tobacco Documents Library – internal memos released as part of the settlement of lawsuits against the tobacco industry. (click images for pdf of originals): > > The video at top of this page is a 17 minute lecture from study author Amanda Fallin, which very clearly draws the major outlines of the study. > > Poignantly, Fallin concludes by noting that “people who support the Tea Party favor smoke free laws at virtually the same rate as people who were opposed to the Tea Party.” So at the grassroots level, legitimate feelings of patriotism, national pride, concerns about big government and the economy, have been co-opted and bent, with low information voters attending Glenn Beck rallies, reading from a script prepared for them decades ago, serving a corporate agenda of which they have absolutely no knowledge, and which is counter to their own best, highest well being. And once again, depending on efforts from racists regarding the lawsuits against the Dreamers remains a bad idea. It remains a constituent that I would not give any attention, not even to give them the time of the day. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/314 "2013-06-28T15:59:09Z")
The same can be said for liberalism and Democrats. Racial minorities aren’t actually any more liberal than whites, yet minority politicians put forward by Democrats are usually the most liberal of the liberal. Not to mention it’s very rare for Democrats to allow minorities to represent white districts. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/315 "2013-06-28T16:48:16Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The same can be said for liberalism and Democrats. Racial minorities aren’t actually any more liberal than whites, yet minority politicians put forward by Democrats are usually the most liberal of the liberal. Not to mention it’s very rare for Democrats to allow minorities to represent white districts. And thank you for showing all that **you are not capable of doing a related reply** , the point is the false grassroots on one side, and racist crackpots on the other that you are using for support. ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/316 "2013-06-28T18:01:12Z")
Think Progress did an [interesting comparison](http://www.newrepublic.com/article/113674/immigration-reform-2013-republicans-remain-opposed#) of the politics surrounding this attempt at immigration reform versus the previous one in 2006 (an attempt which also passed the Senate 62-32 but then died in the House). Bottom line: It doesn’t look good… > [@](#): > > Today’s vote appears more impressive than the 2006 Senate vote. But back then, there were only 39 Democratic “yes” votes, compared to 52 today (independents excluded). As that implies, there was less Republican support for today’s bill than there was in 2006: Only 30 percent of Senate Republicans voted for today’s immigration bill, compared to 42 percent in 2006. Much of that decline is due to the loss of blue state Senate Republicans who were defeated in 2006 and 2008. But over the last seven years, just two Senate Republicans—Lamar Alexander and Orin Hatch—switched from “no” to “yes.” Throw in the fact that the House is even more conservative today, plus Boehner’s pledge to invoke the Hastert rule, and once again we see what Republicans are best at: Obstruction to appease their cuckoo racist base. These opposition votes, in fact, are the fruits or gerrymandering. Many House Republicans in 2006 had to worry more about voters to their left in 2006; today, most are in “safe” districts whose only challenge comes from the right. Sure, come 2022, the GOP will lose a lot of these seats with redistricting, but they can do a lot of damage in the meantime. The only real hope is that the right-wing noise machine start deprogramming their followers into supporting the bill. IMO until the business lobby starts leaning on Fox News to get the knuckle-draggers on-board, the bill has very little chance–and even then it may be too late for them to tame the Frankenstein’s monster they’ve created. But no worries…I’m sure they’ll find a way to blame Obama for it: “If only he had invited his opponents to dinner more often…” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/317 "2013-06-28T18:06:26Z")
A lot of pro-business Pubbies favor whatever form of immigration will bring in the cheap labor they need so badly. If they absolutely must swallow a path to citizenship, swallow they shall, but they would much prefer not to, or to have so many restrictions as to make the possibility essentially moot. They favor “border security” as loudly as possible in order to keep their “tough guy” look. Question that needs answering, or at least in my mind: how many illegal workers come across the border strictly to find work to support their families and could care less about becoming citizens? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242.md?page=15)