# Rubio won't back his own immigration bill **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 5, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242 "2013-06-05T21:24:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 9:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/61 "2013-06-08T09:06:36Z")
Not paying the fine does not lead to deportation. Green card status is dependent on paying the fine. Provisional legalization occurs the second the legislation is signed and requires no action on the part of illegals. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 9:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/62 "2013-06-08T09:20:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Not paying the fine does not lead to deportation. Green card status is dependent on paying the fine. Provisional legalization occurs the second the legislation is signed and requires no action on the part of illegals. More creative definitions. [http://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=eb728e23-c9f7-4f17-b0dc-6dcf867d8214](http://www.rubio.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=eb728e23-c9f7-4f17-b0dc-6dcf867d8214) > [@](#): > > MYTH: The proposed immigration bill will end deportations by granting amnesty to the 11 million illegal immigrants currently in the United States. > > ``` > “If President Obama signs an immigration-reform law this year, 11 million people living in the United States illegally will immediately be given a break. They will no longer be deportable unless they are felons.” (“How Republicans Can Win Over Their Party on Immigration,” National Journal, 4/23/13) > > “The bill offers a multi-staged amnesty to at least 11 million people…” (Neil Munro, “‘Gang of 8′ reveals immigration bill, start race to read contents,” Daily Caller, 4/17/13) > > ``` > > FACT: If the proposed immigration bill does pass, hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants who do not qualify for temporary legal status will be subject to deportation. The legislation also provides for enhanced punishment as well as increased funding for deportation of future illegal immigrants. > [@](#): > > ``` > No one gets amnesty. This bill will eliminate today’s de facto amnesty, in which we have 11 million illegal immigrants here and do not know who they are, what activities they are engaged in or anything else about them. Once the first security triggers are achieved, undocumented immigrants will be able to come forward, must submit to and pass background checks, be fingerprinted, start paying $2,000 in fines, pay taxes, prove they’ve had a physical presence in the U.S. since before 2012 and go to the back of the line, among other criteria. Criminals and those illegal immigrants who do not meet these criteria will be deported. > > Legalization is not immediate, automatic or irrevocable. Even for illegal immigrants who attain temporary status, that temporary status can be revoked if they commit a serious crime or if they fail to comply with the employment requirement, the public charge requirement (which goes hand-in-hand with the employment requirement), their tax obligations and their physical presence obligations. They will then be subject to deportation. > > ``` ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/63 "2013-06-08T09:42:24Z")
\*\*FACT: If the proposed immigration bill does pass, hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants who do not qualify for temporary legal status will be subject to deportation. The legislation also provides for enhanced punishment as well as increased funding for deportation of future illegal immigrants. \*\* That’s a small minority, presumably criminals. And even there, the administration has waiver authority. The fact is, today 11 million immigrants live under the fear of being deported. The second the President signs immigration reform legislation, 10 million of them will never have to fear it again. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/64 "2013-06-08T09:44:32Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > \*\*FACT: If the proposed immigration bill does pass, hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants who do not qualify for temporary legal status will be subject to deportation. The legislation also provides for enhanced punishment as well as increased funding for deportation of future illegal immigrants. \*\* > > That’s a small minority, presumably criminals. And even there, the administration has waiver authority. > > The fact is, today 11 million immigrants live under the fear of being deported. The second the President signs immigration reform legislation, 10 million of them will never have to fear it again. If they make efforts to pay the fine and follow the regulations imposed. And again, your waiver point is really silly when one looks at what Rubio reports. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/65 "2013-06-08T09:50:16Z")
Rubio reports that he’s willing to try to improve the bill, especially on the waiver power granted to the executive branch. That’s him fulfilling his promise to Tea Partiers. He’s listening to our conerns and taking them back to the Gang of Eight. If the Gang won’t improve the bill, then he’ll walk away. Something else he promised to do early in the process. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/66 "2013-06-08T10:11:04Z")
Continuing to depend on manufactured definitions and blissfully minimize the divisions of the Republicans is not working, Hispanics are noticing, and even more so if Rubio and others walk out. And so do all others that will be appalled by the poison pill effort shown now, not likely to attract anyone that just wants to do the most humane thing. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/67 "2013-06-08T10:28:45Z")
I’m seeing no poison pills in any of the amendments. Just attempts to codify what the reformers say will happen anyway. If it’s what they support, why not codify it? especially given that empty promises were made in 1986? Trust, but verify. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/68 "2013-06-08T11:12:40Z")
Once again, they should had add them before. Once again Hispanics are not impressed. What I see is stalling besides the addition of more costs that will make less palatable to House republicans. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/69 "2013-06-08T12:02:30Z")
Of course they should have been added before, but six of the eight gang members don’t want enforcement at all, thus putting enforcement in with one hand while taking it out with the other. So now it will be added in, the bill will pass, a million or two people will be deported, 9 or 10 million will begin a path to citizenship, and Hispanics can make of that what they will. That still leaves unresolved the question of legal immigration in the future. Unions made sure that only a small number of people can come in and get jobs legally, which in effect means that future legal immigration will be slowed to a trickle. And that was at an important democratic constituency’s request, not the Republicans. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/70 "2013-06-08T12:06:08Z")
And we had this conversation before, even here you are way off the mark regarding the numbers of future immigrants, but it is not my problem if you want to continue to post half baked points. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 12:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/71 "2013-06-08T12:45:28Z")
Your case was that immigration will decline, but if it does, there’s no need for caps. If there are mass deportations because of a Democratic policy, that won’t look good to Hispanics, especially since Republicans tend to support a lot of immigration for work purposes. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/72 "2013-06-08T16:23:22Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Your case was that immigration will decline, but if it does, there’s no need for caps. > > If there are mass deportations because of a Democratic policy, that won’t look good to Hispanics, especially since Republicans tend to support a lot of immigration for work purposes. Irrelevant, we are not discussing that, only that your case is half baked, the numbers you are implying are not correct regarding future immigration. As for deportations, the Republicans then are fighting among themselves in this issue and Hispanics know already that there is going to be a huge difference on who is in the white house once the law is passed because the Republicans continue to give Hispanics evidence of what many Republicans think about Hispanic immigrants. [http://nbclatino.com/2013/06/03/gop-report-republicans-have-failed-young-latino-voters/](http://nbclatino.com/2013/06/03/gop-report-republicans-have-failed-young-latino-voters/) > [@](#): > > Only one in four young people thought Romney’s economic policies would improve their job prospects, and 88 percent agreed with a government “safety net” that helps people get back on their feet while not encouraging dependency. And on healthcare, “many of the young people in our focus groups noted that they thought everyone in America should have access to health coverage,” concluded the survey. In fact, even Latinos who were not in favor of abortion criticized the GOP for wanting to defund Planned Parenthood, according to the findings. > > On social issues, half of the over 40 percent of young voters who believe gay marriage should be legal said they would not vote for a candidate who is against it, even if they agreed on other issues such as defense, taxes and immigration. > > And on immigration, the interviews with young people showed it is a “gateway” issue: “for voters who are undecided but have a connection to communities affected by immigration policy, the issue can certainly turn voters away,” the report states. Three out of four young Americans said DREAMers should have a chance to gain legal status, and less than 20 percent of young people advocated deportation or jail time for undocumented immigrants. > > Voto Latino’s Maria Teresa Kumar says these findings point to the fact that “the Republican Party has courted the extreme right when they suited them, and they lost control of the message.” Moving forward, Kumar says, Republicans should encourage more moderate GOP members to run for office, and young Republicans and the party’s establishment should back them up. Well, so much for encouraging moderates. [http://nbclatino.com/2013/06/07/outrage-over-house-amendment-to-deport-dreamers-stricter-senate-immigration-measures/](http://nbclatino.com/2013/06/07/outrage-over-house-amendment-to-deport-dreamers-stricter-senate-immigration-measures/) > [@](#): > > DREAMERs as well as immigration reform activists and civil rights groups have been swiftly condemning the amendment filed by Iowa Republican Congressman Steve King, which calls for stripping away the Administration’s policy to keep DREAMers from deportation through deferred action (DACA). Rep. King stated the law allows for no distinction between undocumented immigrants, whether they be DREAMers or those convicted of crimes. > > “Representative Steve King, an anti-immigrant extremist with a history of attacking our community, is up to his old tricks,” said United We Dream’s Cristina Jimenez. ”Now, some House Republicans are making their demands clear—a return to deporting DREAMers!” she added. Pro-reform America’s Voices said the House made a big mistake, consider the public’s support for DREAMERs. ”It’s unthinkable,” said Sharry. > > The White House weighed in too. ”It asks law enforcement to treat these Dreamers the same way as they would violent criminals,” said White House press secretary Jay Carney. “It’s wrong. It’s not who we are. And it will not become law.” > > The amendment passed largely along partisan lines, with Republican legislators voting in favor. Next week in the Senate, Republican John Cornyn will introduce an amendment calling for more stringent border security triggers. This morning, Alabama Republican Senator Jeff Sessions denounced the current immigration reform bill on the Senate floor. > > Today DREAMers, immigration reform groups such as the Fair Immigration Reform Movement (FIRM) are condemning Illinois Republicans for voting for the House amendment, and are calling on Republican Senator Mark Kirk “to show leadership on the issue,” according to organizers. “Republicans are wrong to offer our young brothers and sisters at the Extreme Tea Party altar,” said Chicago DACA recipient Ere Rendon. “We will spend every waking moment and energy mobilizing communities until opponents of reform and family-breaking politicians are finished,” Rendon added. Other groups have been denouncing the latest amendments. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/73 "2013-06-08T17:34:21Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > **The law as written gives us conservatives everything we want.** the problem is the power to waive the requirements or elide them. That’s what has to be tightened up. Once that happens, the bill will sail through Congress. Hold on a second. Let me break into your losing debate against Senator Rubio himself and point this out: Democrats control 2 of 3 branches of government, the plurality of people in the country voted for us, most people agree with our idea of immigration reform, and the GOP will essentially die out as a national party if you don’t pass this bill. What makes you think you deserve to get a bill with everything you want? The president should have the power to waive whatever he wants. Given the varied circumstances of 11 million people, you cannot write a law that takes into account every type of exception. Might I suggest that if you don’t like it, then win a god damn presidency? Otherwise, continue piling dirt on the grave of the GOP as a national party. You think you are defending your bill but all you are doing is showing Latinos exactly why they should never vote for the GOP You simply have to accept that you lost and give up some things. You want to win the presidency? Fine, then abandon your hopes of enforcement first, embrace amnesty or whatever you call it, and then you can have a chance at winning the White House. Keep doing what you’re doing and we’ll be here in 4 years arguing against you about how terrible a Hillary Clinton presidency will be for the nation ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/74 "2013-06-08T22:08:37Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Might I suggest that if you don’t like it, then win a god damn presidency? From your keyboard to the GOP’s ear. Seriously. How about we actually have a reasonable opposition party in this country again? You know, one that actually offers options to govern instead of blinding opposing everything (including stuff they were once for). ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/75 "2013-06-09T01:35:25Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > You simply have to accept that you lost and give up some things. You want to win the presidency? Fine, then abandon your hopes of enforcement first, embrace amnesty or whatever you call it, and then you can have a chance at winning the White House. Keep doing what you’re doing and we’ll be here in 4 years arguing against you about how terrible a Hillary Clinton presidency will be for the nation The GOP is the part of law and order. That’s not something they can compromise on, and frankly it’s worked for them. I realize Democrats would rather just have an immigration system where the President can pick favorites, going easy on Democratic groups and harassing and deporting Republican groups, but it’s not gonna happen. If Democrats don’t like enforcement, then they should propose open borders and relegate themselves to the permanent minority. Rather than lying to the public and saying they support enforcement while not doing it in practice. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/76 "2013-06-09T02:22:55Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The GOP is the part of law and order. That’s not something they can compromise on, and frankly it’s worked for them. Abortion, gay marriage, and the Voting Rights Act are legal, yet the GOP has been doing everything it can, including passing illegal bills restricting abortion, like it was a bodily function. I imagine that if I were to ask you another time, you’d say the GOP was the party of family values and morals. So you’re not? Then you are against keeping families together and for punishing children who were brought here without their consent when they were babies > [@adaher](#): > > I realize Democrats would rather just have an immigration system where the President can pick favorites, going easy on Democratic groups and harassing and deporting Republican groups, but it’s not gonna happen. LOL! Republican groups? What Republican groups are actively trying to immigrate here? I’d like you to list some “Republican” immigrants and some “Democratic” immigrants please, this should be good… > [@adaher](#): > > If Democrats don’t like enforcement, then they should propose open borders and relegate themselves to the permanent minority. Rather than lying to the public and saying they support enforcement while not doing it in practice. There you go again 😉 Its always your way or the highway, isn’t it? It is impossible for you to entertain the idea that your idea of enforcement is not the only one that exists, nor the correct one. Democrats are for enforcement, but they believe, like anyone who’s ever done 2 things at once, that enforcement can happen at the same time as reform. Also, Obama has deported a lot more people than Bush and, as it has been mentioned, increased our border security. More so, if I may remind you, than the guy who was actually governor of a border state. Therefore, your premise is wrong and your conclusion is wrong. The Democratic version of enforcement is the better solution, unless of course, you belong to a party angrily courting Latinos while secretly still afraid of them and dislike them ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/77 "2013-06-09T03:13:02Z")
The Republicans control the House. Nothing happens without their consent. So the final bill will have real enforcement and the administration will not be able to choose not to enforce. Really, it’s not too much to ask. This would not be controversial if Democrats weren’t trying to deceive the public. Enforcement where only 5% of illegals get sent back is a mockery. It needs to get to 90%. And we are entirely capable of doing that if we start with a clean slate, as in give provisional status to all currently here, while efficiently deporting those who don’t qualify and preventing people from overstaying their visas going forward. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/78 "2013-06-09T05:23:16Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > The Republicans control the House. Nothing happens without their consent. So the final bill will have real enforcement and the administration will not be able to choose not to enforce. > > Really, it’s not too much to ask. This would not be controversial if Democrats weren’t trying to deceive the public. Enforcement where only 5% of illegals get sent back is a mockery. It needs to get to 90%. NO. > **[Rand Paul: 'we aren't going to deport' 11 Million Illegal Immigrants](https://reason.com/2013/03/19/rand-paul-we-arent-going-to-deport-11-mi/)** > > The junior senator from Kentucky and early candidate for the GOP's 2016 presidential nomination is unveiling his immigration plan today at a speech to the > [@](#): > > ``` > He says his party must adopt a new face toward Hispanics and says conservatives must be part of it. > > "Immigration reform will not occur until conservative Republicans, like myself, become part of the solution. I am here today to begin that conversation," Paul says. > > ``` > > \*\* “Let’s start that conversation by acknowledging we aren’t going to deport” the millions already here, he says.\*\* Unless, you want to throw also Rand Paul under the bus too. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 5:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/79 "2013-06-09T05:32:42Z")
Or course we’re not going to deport 11 million people. Thus the need to legalize the bulk of them and start with a clean slate. But once we start with that clean slate, we have to have a system that doesn’t allow millions to come here illegally again. And I think Rand Paul, and Marco Rubio agree with that. I’m not so sure Democrats do, however. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2013, 5:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242/80 "2013-06-09T05:37:39Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > Or course we’re not going to deport 11 million people. Thus the need to legalize the bulk of them and start with a clean slate. > > But once we start with that clean slate, we have to have a system that doesn’t allow millions to come here illegally again. And I think Rand Paul, and Marco Rubio agree with that. I’m not so sure Democrats do, however. So much for the 5% deportation mockery and the “deception of the democrats” when a libertarian in congress is for it, do you ever really think what you say before dropping it on the next post? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rubio-wont-back-his-own-immigration-bill/660242.md?page=5)