# Rugger: What is a "Try"? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [December 19, 2013, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rugger-what-is-a-try/676697 "2013-12-19T04:19:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rugger-what-is-a-try/676697/1 "2013-12-19T04:19:49Z")
How does the scoring work in rugby? In particular, what is a “try?” ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rugger-what-is-a-try/676697/2 "2013-12-19T04:25:10Z")
I’m no expert, but you score a try when you carry the ball into the scoring area at the end of the field, behind the line through the goal posts, and put it on the ground. It’s equivalent to a touchdown in American football. ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rugger-what-is-a-try/676697/3 "2013-12-19T04:27:58Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > … through the goal posts Doesn’t have to go through the goal posts - anywhere in the in-goal area (equivalent to the “endzone”) is okay. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 6:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rugger-what-is-a-try/676697/4 "2013-12-19T06:50:03Z")
Doesn’t have to go through the posts as you say, but you kick the conversion from a point straight back from where you ground it so being in the center is better. A try scores 4 or 5 points depending on which version of rugby you play and the conversion scores 2. Originally a try was worth nothing itself, it just gave you a free try at scoring a goal which you would otherwise have to score with a drop kick while play was ongoing. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rugger-what-is-a-try/676697/5 "2013-12-19T07:11:48Z")
> [@Xema](#): > > Doesn’t have to go through the goal posts - anywhere in the in-goal area (equivalent to the “endzone”) is okay. But it does, as stated, have to cross _the line through the goal posts_, which runs from touchline to touchline. **OldGuy** is right. Later a game that was level on goals scored would be decided on try tally, later still the try assumed an intrinsic value equal to the goal, and since then there has been a gradual increase in the value of the try compared to everything else. Note that you must do one of the following: 1. While carrying the ball, touch it (not drop it) on the ground. 2. While the ball is already on the ground in in-goal, apply downward pressure to it with the hand, arm, or torso from shoulder to hips. Picking the ball up does not count (and could allow you to carry the ball to a more favourable position for the conversion kick, though in practice most players are more interesting in making sure of the try). ---
**Author:** ![Xema](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9de053/32.png) [@Xema](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xema)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rugger-what-is-a-try/676697/6 "2013-12-19T15:27:11Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > But it does, as stated, have to cross _the line through the goal posts_, which runs from touchline to touchline. Right - I misunderstood Giles’ statement. ---
**Author:** ![MadTheSwine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MadTheSwine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MadTheSwine)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rugger-what-is-a-try/676697/7 "2013-12-19T17:36:36Z")
What happens if the player crosses the goal but does not touch the ball to the ground? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rugger-what-is-a-try/676697/8 "2013-12-19T18:27:51Z")
They fail to score any points. I recall seeing two defenders in the goal area, having tackled the ball carrier, struggling mightily to keep the ball from touching the ground. ---
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rugger-what-is-a-try/676697/9 "2013-12-19T18:35:44Z")
> [@MadTheSwine](#): > > What happens if the player crosses the goal but does not touch the ball to the ground? Play continues, just like before. There is an advantage to trying to touch the ball down between the goal posts rather than off to the side. The other team will try to prevent this by tackling the carrier or they may try stripping the ball or pushing the carrier out of the goal, either into touch (out of bounds) or back across the goal line. **Malacandra** describes what has to be done to score a try. Until then, the game is still going on. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rugger-what-is-a-try/676697/10 "2013-12-19T19:14:28Z")
> [@MadTheSwine](#): > > What happens if the player crosses the goal but does not touch the ball to the ground? If the ball passes beyond the try line there are 5 things that can happen: (1), a try; (2), the ball carrier is tackled but an opponent gets underneath the ball, which results in a change of possession (scrum on the 5-yard line with the defending team having the put-in); (3), the ball carrier/ball go past the dead ball line (same result as #2); (4), the ball/ball carrier go into touch beyond the dead ball line (same result as #2 or possibly a line-out from the 5 yard line, I forget); (5), the defending team gets the ball somehow, in which play continues. I suppose there’s also a sixth option, a penalty try for a foul committed on a player in possession beyond the goal line. ETA: these are for rugby union. I have only a bare understanding of the rules of rugby league. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rugger-what-is-a-try/676697/11 "2013-12-19T19:15:49Z")
> [@MadTheSwine](#): > > What happens if the player crosses the goal but does not touch the ball to the ground? Everyone [laughs at you](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok-AIOF-wiM). ---
**Author:** ![Cumbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@Cumbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumbrian)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rugger-what-is-a-try/676697/12 "2013-12-19T19:34:03Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > If the ball passes beyond the try line there are 5 things that can happen: (1), a try; (2), the ball carrier is tackled but an opponent gets underneath the ball, which results in a change of possession (scrum on the 5-yard line with the defending team having the put-in); (3), the ball carrier/ball go past the dead ball line (same result as #2); (4), the ball/ball carrier go into touch beyond the dead ball line (same result as #2 or possibly a line-out from the 5 yard line, I forget); (5), the defending team gets the ball somehow, in which play continues. > > I suppose there’s also a sixth option, a penalty try for a foul committed on a player in possession beyond the goal line. > > ETA: these are for rugby union. I have only a bare understanding of the rules of rugby league. Some of this is right, some of this is incorrect. 1. Yes 2. No - it’s a 5 metre scrum to the attacking team. 3. No - this would be a drop kick out on the 22 metre line by the defending team 4. I assume you mean going into touch beyond the try line (as if they went into touch beyond the dead ball line, you’d have gone beyond the dead ball line). If the attacking team takes the ball into touch in-goal (the end zone being called the in-goal area), it is also a 22m drop out. 5. Yes ETA: 6) is also a Yes, if the opposition commit a penalty to prevent the try - the conversion kick takes place directly in front of the goal posts, regardless of where the offence took place. Mystery option 7) - if a penalty is committed by either side, attacking or defending after the try has been scored - restart with a penalty to the non-offending team on the half way line. ---
**Author:** ![Cumbrian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce7236/32.png) [@Cumbrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cumbrian)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rugger-what-is-a-try/676697/13 "2013-12-19T19:37:38Z")
> [@lisiate](#): > > Everyone [laughs at you](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok-AIOF-wiM). The Sonny Bill one is funny. This one is funnier imo. [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03gpzFZadcQ](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03gpzFZadcQ) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rugger-what-is-a-try/676697/14 "2013-12-19T19:48:05Z")
> [@Cumbrian](#): > > Some of this is right, some of this is incorrect. Whoops. Been a while. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rugger-what-is-a-try/676697/15 "2013-12-19T19:57:11Z")
One thing I found confusing some years ago while watching world cup play was rucks, where it looked like possession of the ball was being contested by a spinning vortex of opposing players pulling at it. When I look at league rules on the wiki thing, it seems to indicate the league rugby did away with rucks many many years before that, so I am not sure what I was seeing. ---
**Author:** ![lisiate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f05b48/32.png) [@lisiate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lisiate)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rugger-what-is-a-try/676697/16 "2013-12-19T20:18:02Z")
> [@Cumbrian](#): > > The Sonny Bill one is funny. This one is funnier imo. > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03gpzFZadcQ](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03gpzFZadcQ) Love it, made him look like a little kid playing with adults… ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rugger-what-is-a-try/676697/17 "2013-12-19T21:27:32Z")
> [@For You](#): > > One thing I found confusing some years ago while watching world cup play was rucks, where it looked like possession of the ball was being contested by a spinning vortex of opposing players pulling at it. When I look at league rules on the wiki thing, it seems to indicate the league rugby did away with rucks many many years before that, so I am not sure what I was seeing. If you’re watching league and you’re seeing the ball carrier held by several opponents, it’s likely that the referee is waiting to see if he has been definitely stopped before he calls the tackle, while the ball carrier is trying to break free or at least gain another yard or two first. The defenders are not allowed to take the ball off him (if he spills it under the impact of the tackle, that’s his look-out, but that’s the limit of what they can do). **Cumbrian** ’s mystery option #7 is quite right and a particular case of a general principle: if a penalty offence is committed while the ball is out of play (which pretty much has to be a “foul play and misconduct” offence), a penalty is awarded where the ball would have re-entered play, and this is if necessary held over until a conversion kick has been taken. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rugger-what-is-a-try/676697/18 "2013-12-20T14:32:34Z")
> [@For You](#): > > One thing I found confusing some years ago while watching world cup play was rucks, where it looked like possession of the ball was being contested by a spinning vortex of opposing players pulling at it. When I look at league rules on the wiki thing, it seems to indicate the league rugby did away with rucks many many years before that, so I am not sure what I was seeing. What you are describing sounds more like a maul than a ruck. A maul is where the players and ball are off the ground and both teams are pushing against each other in a group, trying to drive the other side backwards (or, in the case of the defending team, simply stop the attacking team from advancing with the ball - if they do this successfully enough, they can be awarded possession (though when this happens in practice, the attacking team will almost always get the ball out and pass it to another player, thus ending the maul)). So a bit like scrum, except the attacking team is carrying the ball. Most commonly seen after a line out, where the attacking team is within a few metres of the opposing try line. Note that the defending team is not allowed to drag the maul to the ground, they are penalised if they do so. A ruck occurs after a player is tackled to the ground, whereupon both the ball-carrier must let go of the ball and the player who tackled them must let go of the ball-carrier. Usually, other players from both sides will immediately converge over the ball to try and make sure it comes back on their side, in order to renew the attack or gain possession. I’m sure **Cumbrian** will correct me on the details, but I believe a ruck is formed when one or more players from each side are contesting possession, this usually happens on top of the original ball-carrier and tackler. Often several players from each side contest a ruck. They are not as vicious as they used to be - previously, if an opposing player was lying in the ruck you could drag them out of the way with youre boot, but that’s not allowed any more. As has been said, all the above only applies to Rugby Union - Rugby League doesn’t have rucks or mauls at all, just tackles. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2013, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rugger-what-is-a-try/676697/19 "2013-12-20T15:59:56Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > A ruck occurs after a player is tackled to the ground, whereupon both the ball-carrier must let go of the ball and the player who tackled them must let go of the ball-carrier. Usually, other players from both sides will immediately converge over the ball to try and make sure it comes back on their side, in order to renew the attack or gain possession. I’m sure **Cumbrian** will correct me on the details, but I believe a ruck is formed when one or more players from each side are contesting possession, this usually happens on top of the original ball-carrier and tackler. Often several players from each side contest a ruck. They are not as vicious as they used to be - previously, if an opposing player was lying in the ruck you could drag them out of the way with youre boot, but that’s not allowed any more. > > As has been said, all the above only applies to Rugby Union - Rugby League doesn’t have rucks or mauls at all, just tackles. You don’t need to wait for **Cumbrian** ’s word on that. 😉 You’re quite right - the minimum requirement for a ruck is at least one person from each side contesting for possession of the ball which has gone to ground, usually but not always after a tackle. In simple terms, if both you and an opponent are near enough to the ball to grab it, you can each grab the other guy instead and push him away from the ball; if someone else arrives while the ball is still between the two of you, they must leave the ball alone but may join in the shoving match. All participants in a ruck must have joined it from their own side of the ball. Once the shoving match has moved clear of the ball, it’s back in open play again and can be picked up by anyone. As it’s usually refereed, if the ruck is more or less stabilised and the ball is within clear reach of one side’s acting scrum-half, he can pick it up and play it; formerly, the ball did actually have to leave the ruck (by the movement of the ruck or the ball being pushed clear with the foot) before it could be played by hand. Meanwhile, everyone not in the ruck must retire to behind their own side of it. If the ball crosses the goal-line while all this is going on, anyone whether in the ruck or not can ground the ball by method 2 in my earlier post, resulting in a try (if an attacking player) or a 5-metre scrum (if a defender). ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2013, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rugger-what-is-a-try/676697/20 "2013-12-21T05:09:16Z")
> [@Dead\_Cat](#): > > As has been said, all the above only applies to Rugby Union - Rugby League doesn’t have rucks or mauls at all, just tackles. Whatever I was watching, it would seem sensible to me, from the viewer’s perspective, to eliminate those things. I would see about a minute or so of running, passing, chasing and tackling, and after the tackle, a huge ruck would form and go on for what seemed liked five times as long as the running about action. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rugger-what-is-a-try/676697.md?page=2)