# Rule clarification: Insulting mods in the pit. **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [December 10, 2008, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-clarification-insulting-mods-in-the-pit/476565 "2008-12-10T16:38:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Wiggie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/0ea827/32.png) [@Wiggie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wiggie)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-clarification-insulting-mods-in-the-pit/476565/21 "2008-12-11T15:03:43Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > … I think the mods here have developed hides of positively rhinoceroserian thickness. Insults which would have had me sobbing in my cornflakes have been shrugged off as lightly as the brush of a gnat’s wing. Sure, there have been exceptions, but in general the moderators have tolerated mass shitstorms without resorting to bans, suspensions or even warnings… I gotta agree with this. I was a mod of long standing on another board and was banned by the administrator for posting :rolleyes: in response to one of her posts. No warning, no email, no nothing. Just later that day tried to sign on and received an error message saying that my user name did not exist. You could rightfully say that as a mod I should be held to a higher standard, especially in regards to how I respond to the admin, and I would agree. But just how egregious is this guy? -\> :rolleyes: I’m ad admin of my own board and believe me, a :rolleyes: would not ever warrant a banning - and it’s a professional board that would require a much higher standard of decorum. That gal was so thin-skinned that the board eventually collapsed under the weight of her heavy hand. I truly don’t see the mods here being the same way. Even the admins, although I will admit at least two of them need to work on thickening their skin. And tempering their arrogance. Oh, BTW, long-time lurker so I’m not exactly unfamiliar with some of the history. ---
**Author:** ![NineToTheSky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5a626/32.png) [@NineToTheSky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NineToTheSky)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-clarification-insulting-mods-in-the-pit/476565/22 "2008-12-11T15:03:59Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > Seriously? You’re _that_ affected by mere words? Insults are just words, and words only have whatever power over you that you give them. Getting all bent out of shape to the point that you’re actually crying because someone called you a bad name is blatantly stupid, IMO. The pit is for people to vent; let 'em vent. What do you care if someone–even someone you know closely–calls you a big, fat poopyhead? Or a crotch-rotten cumdumpster? Sure, I’ll sometimes get a momentary flash of anger over somethign someone says or calls me, and I’ll insult them right back. But damned if Im’m gonna let it ruin my day. Some things are just not worth the effort of outrage; this is one of those. People have different degrees of sensitivity. Some people are hurt and upset by insulting behaviour or name calling. You’re tough or insensitive? Good for you. Some people aren’t. A civilized society is one where you make allowances for other people’s frailities. ---
**Author:** ![Ed\_Zotti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/fbc32d/32.png) [@Ed\_Zotti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ed_Zotti)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-clarification-insulting-mods-in-the-pit/476565/23 "2008-12-11T15:39:22Z")
> [@Sapo](#): > > This. Fun as it is telling people that you will see them next Tuesday, it is something we manage to live without IRL. Saying that it is not allowed in here wouldn’t be that much of a stretch. > > I’ll miss using the right to do it, but I won’t miss seeing others using the same right. And this is, in the end, how laws work. I love having loud parties until sunrise. Not having one next door every day more than makes up for not being able to have one myself. I wholeheartedly agree. It’s going to take a while for us to work through this internally. Hope to have more to say in a day or two. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-clarification-insulting-mods-in-the-pit/476565/24 "2008-12-11T15:48:27Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > Seriously? You’re _that_ affected by mere words? Insults are just words, and words only have whatever power over you that you give them. Getting all bent out of shape to the point that you’re actually crying because someone called you a bad name is blatantly stupid, IMO. The pit is for people to vent; let 'em vent. What do you care if someone–even someone you know closely–calls you a big, fat poopyhead? Or a crotch-rotten cumdumpster? Sure, I’ll sometimes get a momentary flash of anger over somethign someone says or calls me, and I’ll insult them right back. But damned if Im’m gonna let it ruin my day. Some things are just not worth the effort of outrage; this is one of those. Er, I didn’t actually mean that I’d be sobbing into my cornflakes. Heard of _litotes_? ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-clarification-insulting-mods-in-the-pit/476565/25 "2008-12-11T15:51:27Z")
:smack: Forget I said that, I meant _overstatement_. 🙂 (Trust me to choose the term with the exact opposite meaning!) ---
**Author:** ![SiXSwordS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/49beb7/32.png) [@SiXSwordS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SiXSwordS)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-clarification-insulting-mods-in-the-pit/476565/26 "2008-12-11T17:00:22Z")
> [@Q.E.D](#): > > Seriously? You’re _that_ affected by mere words? .. Getting all bent out of shape to the point that you’re actually crying because someone called you a bad name is blatantly stupid, IMO. .. That is one of the most ridiculously facile pantloads I’ve had the misfortune to encounter on these boards. You’re saying that because someone doesn’t have a zenlike ability to handle emotional opprobrium they are stupid? Are your posts demonstrating your own overly short fuse evidence of your own stupidity? Everything that happens on these boards happens because of mere words including this thread and the suspension that spawned it. If you’re not affected by it, then why post at all? If insults and invective are essentially based on ignorance, why are they tolerated? Or, since they are tolerated, why are they only tolerated in the Pit? Since everyone is already able to disregard bad names and mean words, why should there be any restriction? Can I call someone a Nigger and expect that they should just shrug it off or be considered an imbecile for taking offense? If > [@](#): > > Some things are just not worth the effort of outrage and > [@](#): > > this is one of those. then aren’t you making the point that everyone would be better off if you posted nothing at all rather than sing-songing some regurgitated non-sense about sticks and stones? ---
**Author:** ![PetW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/d2c977/32.png) [@PetW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PetW)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-clarification-insulting-mods-in-the-pit/476565/27 "2008-12-11T18:01:40Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > :smack: > > Forget I said that, I meant _overstatement_. 🙂 > > (Trust me to choose the term with the exact opposite meaning!) Hyperbole? If it makes you feel better I didn’t know what litotes meant! ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-clarification-insulting-mods-in-the-pit/476565/28 "2008-12-11T19:16:03Z")
> [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](#): > > Now I say this as someone who’s never gotten a Mod warning, . You will. If you post long enough, you are bound to get a warning. Thus, in the old days it used to be you’d be banned after a second occurance, even if your 'warning" was 10,000 posts and three years back, and even for something which is now OK but wasn’t then. They seem to have moderated this somewhat in recent years, but in the past, anyone with a high number of posts was doomed. :eek: Does the staff still keep track of any offical Mod warning, no matter how ancient?😕 ---
**Author:** ![Ed\_Zotti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/fbc32d/32.png) [@Ed\_Zotti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ed_Zotti)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-clarification-insulting-mods-in-the-pit/476565/29 "2008-12-11T19:21:23Z")
Just a reminder, folks - this is ATMB. Let’s keep it civil. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-clarification-insulting-mods-in-the-pit/476565/30 "2008-12-11T19:48:12Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > Of course, there is no doubt some cathartic value in getting to curse people out when they use their authority in a way you don’t agree with – but it’s a catharsis that most people learn to do without in polite society. Of course we don’t do it polite society. We bite our tongues, then go out to the bar with our friends or go home to our wives, and then unleash a storm of scorn and vituperation there. The equivalent of that here is removing one’s self from the thread in question and opening up a separate complaint thread. There are even times where you know you don’t have a really valid response to the mod, but you jsut want to air a public grievance. Do it against an unpopular enough mod, and scores of posters are bound to come out and tell you you’re still a reasonable guy. > [@DrDeth](#): > > You will. If you post long enough, you are bound to get a warning. :rolleyes: I’ve been here for two years, now. If they wanted to ‘get’ me, they would have by now. Not to worry, I’m sure they’ll broom me out of here when they finally pull off the long-awaited conservative-poster purge. ---
**Author:** ![gurujulp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ba9def/32.png) [@gurujulp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gurujulp)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-clarification-insulting-mods-in-the-pit/476565/31 "2008-12-11T19:54:22Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > Good luck with that. > > –SNIP— Think of yourselves as doctors on a mental ward–you don’t react to “Hey, you stupid prick” the same way you do to that abuse in a barroom. **If that’s too extreme, try the analogy of being a nursery school teacher–if a kid calls you a bad name, it’s pretty unprofessional to go nuts on him. You’re better off to let the words slide off your back and try to help the kid deal with his emotional issues.** —SNIP— (bolding mine) Teachers don’t just let that slide these days- that would be a time out at least and probably going to the principal’s office, and if there wasn’t a clear apology- home for the day. In kindergarten. (from direct experience in a kid’s class this year) ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-clarification-insulting-mods-in-the-pit/476565/32 "2008-12-11T20:14:14Z")
I didn’t say to to let the incident slide. I said to let the hurtful words slide. You’d deal with them, not as a personal insult out of a four-year-old’s mouth, but professionally as a sign that something’s seriously wrong here and you’d take steps to deal witih the root problem. At the SD, if I were to call a mod a series of foul names, sure, a personal response would be for that mod to get up on his high horse, intone a few indignant ‘well-I-never"s and ban me, but I don’t think that would solve the root problem of whatever incensed me, I don’t think the example of my banning would frighten other posters into staying on their best behaviors at all times, I don’t think I would learn whatever I might have misconstrued that got me cussin’ and swearin’–all that would happen is that the mod in question might feel better. My point is that this is a place for us to express our ideas, primarily, but for the SD it’s primarily a source of revenue, and they should be as professional as they know how to be in handling problems from the often unruly clientele. Complaining about how hard their jobs are seems pretty unprofessional to me, and pretty irrelevant, though I might extend **Lynn** considerable courtesy and consideration on a personal basis. I know it can be tough to deal with people, and so do most Dopers. Take another analogy (and please notice all of my analogies here concern businesses dealing with intemperate or impaired clientele from time to time). Think of the SD as a bar–you want a certain level of informality. You want to encourage people to drink and you’re aware that a risk is that people will get a little rowdy sometimes, often in ways that are irritating, especially to a sober person behind the bar or in the office. But if a drunken client ges overfamiliar, you’d be within your rights to have the bouncer toss the jerk out on the sidewalk unceremoniously–maybe other unpleasant drunks would learn from that example the behavior you’d like to see. But most bars try to avoid manhandling their clientele if they can help it. It would be a silly policy for the bartender to curse louder at the customer who just cursed at him. Far more professional, far more dignified, I think for him to realize “Hey, this is someone who spends money heree, who’s been pretty well behaved over the years–I can’t take this nonsense personally, I’ll try to talk him down, maybe ask him to behave better, and see if I can avoid getting belligerent back at him. I have the power to have him thrown out the door, but let’s try a little restraint first and if that doesn’t work, let’s try a little more restraint. That’s just good businesss sense.” If I’m reading Ed’s tone correctly, he’s just about finished showing restraint, and is seriously considering cracking the whip to show us who’s in charge. I think that would be an error in judgment on his part, respectfully. ---
**Author:** ![Gukumatz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/74df32/32.png) [@Gukumatz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gukumatz)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-clarification-insulting-mods-in-the-pit/476565/33 "2008-12-11T21:33:03Z")
Anyone mind if we keep the person, **Jerry** , off-limits under the new rules? He’s a salaried worker apparently doing board maintenance as a side dish. There’s limits to his commitment and it’s both pointless and egregiously ungrateful to label him as, for instance, “incompetent.” Particularly since the board now finally _has_ gone free-to-post. Rant away about the work he’s promised. Tirade your arse off about the searches, but it should have been abundantly clear that the Admins made a choice for legit reasons and they’re sticking to it. And I have sadly yet to see anyone actually put their money where their mouths are and actually _leave_ over it. ---
**Author:** ![Ed\_Zotti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/fbc32d/32.png) [@Ed\_Zotti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ed_Zotti)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-clarification-insulting-mods-in-the-pit/476565/34 "2008-12-11T21:36:13Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > If I’m reading Ed’s tone correctly, he’s just about finished showing restraint, and is seriously considering cracking the whip to show us who’s in charge. I think that would be an error in judgment on his part, respectfully. That’s not what I have in mind at all - I’ve long since shed the illusion that shock and awe is a practical management tactic. However, I do think we need to rethink what we consider permissible conduct - and by “we” I mean everyone who participates here. I’m in the middle of something and don’t have time for a long post, so all I’ll say right now is that while I love the Pit (usually) and think it’s an important part of what makes the SDMB work, I think we need to dial back on the coarseness and viciousness that’s occasionally evident there - and I mean that generally, not just with respect to interaction between posters and staff. I think that’s possible without expecting everyone to act like they’re in Sunday school. Gotta get back to work, but don’t worry, I’m not contemplating a mass purge. ---
**Author:** ![Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/d9b06d/32.png) [@Boozahol\_Squid\_P.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boozahol_Squid_P.I)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-clarification-insulting-mods-in-the-pit/476565/35 "2008-12-11T22:08:44Z")
> [@Gukumatz](#): > > Anyone mind if we keep the person, **Jerry** , off-limits under the new rules? > > He’s a salaried worker apparently doing board maintenance as a side dish. There’s limits to his commitment and it’s both pointless and egregiously ungrateful to label him as, for instance, “incompetent.” Particularly since the board now finally _has_ gone free-to-post. I really don’t like this idea. While I don’t think that Jerry’s done anything to deserve the abuse he takes here, codifying immunity from complaints in the rules seems like a bad idea: every single mod and admin don’t get any sort of bonus pay for their work here ( **Ed Zotti** excepted, perhaps). Creating a no-complaints boundary around any or all of them might seem fair, but will lead to a worse overall environment in a board where the exchange of ideas is the purpose. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-clarification-insulting-mods-in-the-pit/476565/36 "2008-12-11T22:27:57Z")
Complaints are one thing, long hate-filled diatribes are another. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-clarification-insulting-mods-in-the-pit/476565/37 "2008-12-11T22:39:29Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You will. If you post long enough, you are bound to get a warning. Nonsense. A large majority of long-time and high-post-count posters have never received a warning. Only a small minority of posters have ever received a formal warning. > [@](#): > > They seem to have moderated this somewhat in recent years, but in the past, anyone with a high number of posts was doomed. :eek: Given that most people who have very post counts now have been around for many years, and these were also among those who had the highest point counts back then, this is also nonsense. > [@](#): > > Does the staff still keep track of any offical Mod warning, no matter how ancient?😕 Depends on what you mean by “keep track.” They are still on record (and of course the warnings still remain in the original threads and can usually be found with a search). But if considering a disciplinary action, we mostly are looking at sustained patterns of behavior over a fairly limited of time. A single warning from five years ago isn’t going to enter into it. For perspective, we have collectively issued just over 200 Official Warnings so far this year (since Jan 2008), or an average of less than one a day (and we get thousands of posts a day). A small number of posters account for a disproportionate number of warnings (and of course the worst end up being suspended or banned), so I doubt that we have issued warnings to more than 100-150 individual posters out the thousands who have posted here in the past year. Getting a warning is an unusual event; most posters are able to avoid it just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-clarification-insulting-mods-in-the-pit/476565/38 "2008-12-11T23:16:12Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > For perspective, we have collectively issued just over 200 Official Warnings so far this year (since Jan 2008), or an average of less than one a day (and we get thousands of posts a day). A small number of posters account for a disproportionate number of warnings (and of course the worst end up being suspended or banned), so I doubt that we have issued warnings to more than 100-150 individual posters out the thousands who have posted here in the past year. Getting a warning is an unusual event; most posters are able to avoid it just fine. Sorry to hijack, but hey, it’s my thread. Can we get more stats on this? Taking out the warnings issued to people who ended up banned, how many are left? Average number of warnings before banning? ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-clarification-insulting-mods-in-the-pit/476565/39 "2008-12-12T01:58:12Z")
> [@Sapo](#): > > Can we get more stats on this? Taking out the warnings issued to people who ended up banned, how many are left? Average number of warnings before banning? Nah, it’s not worth the effort (at least my effort). And if I were to give you an average number of warnings before banning, every time someone was banned with one over or one under we would be accused of being either playing favorites or being heavy handed.😉 ---
**Author:** ![Sapo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@Sapo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sapo)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2008, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-clarification-insulting-mods-in-the-pit/476565/40 "2008-12-12T02:00:10Z")
> [@Colibri](#): > > Nah, it’s not worth the effort (at least my effort). And if I were to give you an average number of warnings before banning, every time someone was banned with one over or one under we would be accused of being either playing favorites or being heavy handed.😉 Curses. I am an open book. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-clarification-insulting-mods-in-the-pit/476565.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-clarification-insulting-mods-in-the-pit/476565.md?page=3)