# rule on evil people's deaths? **URL:** \ **Category:** About This Message Board\ **Created:** [February 1, 2013, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-on-evil-peoples-deaths/649030 "2013-02-01T13:57:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-on-evil-peoples-deaths/649030/21 "2013-02-02T03:27:56Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > If that’s not the case with the Falwell thread, all I can say is that he died six years ago and we made some changes in how we handle these threads. Yeah…new rule: No insulting dead liberals, but conservatives are fair game. Because we hate conservatives here. Second verse, same as the first. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-on-evil-peoples-deaths/649030/22 "2013-02-02T03:34:47Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Yeah…new rule: In this context, “new” means “four years old.” And you were aware of this because you were certainly active in those ATMB threads. > [@](#): > > Second verse, same as the first. I can’t stop you from making this complaint every couple of weeks, but it does kind of lose its luster when that happens. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-on-evil-peoples-deaths/649030/23 "2013-02-02T03:43:19Z")
Seems supremely arbitrary to allow dancing on some graves but not others. If the departed is popular, no dancing. If he’s not, put on them dancing shoes. Hows about a no dancing rule, period, in MPSIM and kick up your heels as much as you like in the Pit? Then no one has to guess who is popular and who isn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-on-evil-peoples-deaths/649030/24 "2013-02-02T03:46:57Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > I can’t stop you from making this complaint every couple of weeks, but it does kind of lose its luster when that happens. Maybe if you and your co-mods would stop making decisions favoring liberals, I’d quit raising the issue. You can stick your head in the sand all you like, but conservatives do not have a level playing field here. ---
**Author:** ![IvoryTowerDenizen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ivorytowerdenizen/32/17937_2.png) [@IvoryTowerDenizen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IvoryTowerDenizen)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-on-evil-peoples-deaths/649030/25 "2013-02-02T04:17:12Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > I did not mention Bin Laden. The Falwell thread was a disgrace, but was tolerated largely because he was conservative and all the mods here are liberal. Since he was conservative, it was apparently ok for people to talk about pissing on his grave, popping champagne, and posting a fucking poem about dancing on his grave. Koch was a liberal, and here come the jackboots if anyone dares to disrespect him. > > This is clearly biased moderating. I think the argument that Koch was a liberal is not clear cut. He backed George W Bush, hated unions, was aggressively pro-Israel, and pissed off the Black constituents. He had some liberal leanings, but hardly cut and dry. Your argument of bias based on Koch’s liberalism doesn’t hold water. ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-on-evil-peoples-deaths/649030/26 "2013-02-02T06:55:29Z")
> [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](#): > > I just got bitchslapped for posting my personal joy in a thread entitled “Ed Koch, RIP” and I’m not arguing the injustice, the calamity, the man’s-inhumanity-to-man of it, as much as asking a factual question: **if a public figure dies, and is generally perceived as controversial, or even consensus-evil, are there any rules for it being okay to dissent** from the RIP? As for dissing a controversial dead man, there’s hardly a better precedent to be found, than [Hunter S. Thompson’s obituary of Richard Nixon](http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1994/07/he-was-a-crook/308699/), July 16, 1994. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-on-evil-peoples-deaths/649030/27 "2013-02-02T16:34:23Z")
> [@Idle\_Thoughts](#): > > As I said, there isn’t a rule against speaking negatively against dead celebrity figures, even in said RIP threads. There’s a difference between speaking negatively and/or cracking a joke and the case here, which was breaking the “Don’t be a jerk” rule with the way it was done/said. The post was easily a (take your pick) threadshitting-type of post, put in such a way to get reactions, and had the good potential to start a debate or hijack. For any of these reasons was enough to get a mod note or warning…but the fact that it was done by a long-time member who should know better by now and who already has a history of previous warnings of jerkish-ness makes it definite. > > The comparison to Falwell and Bin Laden is just silly. These are people who are globally disliked by a wide and obvious margin. Whereas in this case, the topic was a respectful RIP thread and just because a person may dislike a certain place, thing, or figure, doesn’t give them the right to blast in a thread like that. > Two other examples that spring to mind: Don’t like New York? Sure, you can say it…just don’t say it [like this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15644795&postcount=446) and at [these times](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=15645134&postcount=466), in those topics. Make a Pit thread about it if you want to rant like that. > > The warning stands. Since, as you admit, it’s a judgment call as to whether the figure is merely disliked or REAALLLLY disliked, and also a judgment call as to whether the poster is being slightly obnoxious or REAAALLLLY obnoxious in dissenting from the hushed respectful tone of the RIP thread, why don’t you err on the side of reason and simply request that future dissenters open a Pit thread without the warning, whistle-blowing, THIS WILL NOT STAND stuff? Same effect, and less aggressive overbearingness. I realize the inherent contradiction in suggesting that restraint in mod behavior might be a good thing in general. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-on-evil-peoples-deaths/649030/28 "2013-02-02T18:08:47Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Maybe if you and your co-mods would stop making decisions favoring liberals, I’d quit raising the issue. Nobody made a decision favoring liberals. A poster was warned for making an overly nasty comment about Koch in an MPSIMS thread. Six years ago - so long ago that none of the current MPSIMS mods were even on the staff - nobody was warned for similar comments about Jerry Falwell. You can either recognize that these kinds of situations are handled a little differently than they were six years ago because in 2009 we had a long discussion of how we handle these threads in the interest of trying to be consistent - or you can complain forever that it went differently in 2007. Your choice. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-on-evil-peoples-deaths/649030/29 "2013-02-02T18:48:04Z")
I strongly suspect that the OP would not have been warned if he’d worded the post in such a way that it didn’t look like threadshitting. I.E. “I’m glad Koch is dead. He bungled the handling of the AIDS outbreak in New York and consequently huge number of New Yorkers died due to his incompetence” Or, “The guy heavily exacerbated racial tensions during his reign. I won’t miss him.” Or even, “Under his reign New York turned into a pisshole swamped by homeless people. Good riddance!” Note, I’m not saying I’d agree with any of those, but had the OP at least explained his reasoning, I suspect the worst that would have happened is perhaps a note to tone it down. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-on-evil-peoples-deaths/649030/30 "2013-02-02T19:17:41Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Note, I’m not saying I’d agree with any of those, but had the OP at least explained his reasoning, I suspect the worst that would have happened is perhaps a note to tone it down. Yeah, thats pretty much it. Don’t crank the he’s EBIL and I hope he burns in HELB to 11 unless you are pretty darn sure thats a vast majority consensus and or you have some facts to back up your case. Itsa variation on the don’t be a JERK rule. If your Aspergers is so bad you often get surprised at being called a jerk ya might want to tread lightly. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-on-evil-peoples-deaths/649030/31 "2013-02-02T20:07:24Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > Nobody made a decision favoring liberals. A poster was warned for making an overly nasty comment about Koch in an MPSIMS thread. Six years ago - so long ago that none of the current MPSIMS mods were even on the staff - nobody was warned for similar comments about Jerry Falwell. You can either recognize that these kinds of situations are handled a little differently than they were six years ago because in 2009 we had a long discussion of how we handle these threads in the interest of trying to be consistent - or you can complain forever that it went differently in 2007. Your choice. Can I expect similar protection for the next conservative celebrity that dies? First liberal that threadshits gets a warning, even if it is one of your favorites? ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-on-evil-peoples-deaths/649030/32 "2013-02-02T20:27:54Z")
I’m not at all sure that my motivations for disliking Koch matter very much. I don’t like him for a wide variety of reasons–among them, his cowardice in hiding his sexual identity [(detailed here)](http://www.salon.com/2013/02/01/ed_kochs_enduring_uneasy_gay_legacy/) --but threadshitting is very much a judgment call, and so is the degree of Koch’s evil. It’s obvious to me that if there had been a Mod in charge of MPSIMS who shared some of my animosity towards Koch, or who thought I was a fine fellow, I would have been informally chided. If a mod actually agreed with me about Koch, the mods would be circling each other defending NOT giving me a warning. ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-on-evil-peoples-deaths/649030/33 "2013-02-02T20:31:41Z")
Well Yah called it wrong. Suck it up. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-on-evil-peoples-deaths/649030/34 "2013-02-02T21:03:43Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Can I expect similar protection for the next conservative celebrity that dies? You can expect the MPSIMS mods to enforce the same rule. Whether they note or warn the poster depends on their judgement about the post in question. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-on-evil-peoples-deaths/649030/35 "2013-02-02T21:10:26Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > You can expect the MPSIMS mods to enforce the same rule. Whether they note or warn the poster depends on their judgement about the post in question. Gee…wanna bet that their judgement favors liberals over conservatives? Say George W. Bush dies, and one of your pet posters pops in to say they hope he rots in Hell. That will be deemed acceptable, because he wasn’t a liberal, and many liberals despise him. Pelosi dies, and I post that I won’t miss her, and here come the jackboots… ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-on-evil-peoples-deaths/649030/36 "2013-02-02T21:20:18Z")
Can I just say that, no matter how much I may upon occasion disagree with the mods and their rulings, it’d drive me insane to constantly hear this pedantic rules-lawyering bullshit from the same people. “You put your hand over the line!” “No I didn’t!” “Yes I did!” “You get away with it because mom likes you better!” “No she doesn’t!” “Yes she does!” ad nauseum. I swear to Og, it makes trying to keep up with the latest information about what is and isn’t acceptable now on the Dope a major league fucking tedious pain in the ass. Gah, you all have my utter sympathies. How anyone retains their composure and doesn’t go all ban happy on peoples’ obnoxious pointy heads, I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@pseudotriton\_ruber\_ruber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pseudotriton_ruber_ruber)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-on-evil-peoples-deaths/649030/37 "2013-02-02T21:40:33Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > it’d drive me insane to constantly hear this pedantic rules-lawyering bullshit from the same people. Which is why I’m calling for them to enforce the rules that are actually rules, and where there’s a lot of gray area and judgment-calling, as here, to refrain from issuing warnings. I mean, listen to \*\*Marley \*\*here: “Whether they note or warn the poster depends on their judgement about the post in question.” That’s tantamount to saying that the only criterion is not any clear rule, or any other kind of criterion, other than the individual Mod’s judgment about the individual post. But I was cited for breaking a rule, that doesn’t exist, on the basis of my having been here long enough to know better. The only thing I could possibly learn from this is to have liked Ed Koch more. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-on-evil-peoples-deaths/649030/38 "2013-02-02T21:42:04Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Gee…wanna bet that their judgement favors liberals over conservatives? This question suggests your complaints haven’t been effective and that you don’t think you will be effective in the future. Do you think perhaps you should try looking at this another way? > [@](#): > > Say George W. Bush dies, and one of your pet posters pops in to say they hope he rots in Hell. “Pet?” Do you want to field this one, **pseudotriton ruber ruber** , or should I? Seriously though, **Oakminster** , I don’t know what else you expect here. I can’t promise that a mod will warn some future poster for saying something that offends your sensibilities. I can say the mods will apply the rule as they see fit and that they’ll strive to be fair like we always do, which means they may note or warn the poster depending on the content of the post and their or judgment. I can’t promise you’ll be happy with the results. In fact I wouldn’t bet on it. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-on-evil-peoples-deaths/649030/39 "2013-02-02T21:52:33Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > This question suggests your complaints haven’t been effective and that you don’t think you will be effective in the future. Do you think perhaps you should try looking at this another way? Do you think you should actually make some effort to be fair and impartial in your moderating? Because you don’t. You modded me for “gun grabber”, when there was no legitimate way for me to anticipate such an arbitrary and capricious ruling. Pretty much every recent other thread on the subject contained much stronger language…yet you picked my post to suddenly apply a new rule of “civility” without prior notice. Mods, like judges, should strive to be consistent and predictable. Similar facts should produce similar results. That is not the case on this board. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2013, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-on-evil-peoples-deaths/649030/40 "2013-02-02T22:09:18Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Do you think you should actually make some effort to be fair and impartial in your moderating? Because you don’t. We do. If you disagree and feel we are either biased or don’t care about being fair, what is complaining going to accomplish? You said in 2009 that we didn’t mod some of the Kennedy threads fairly because Falwell was treated differently (although it’s apples and oranges); you’re saying now that the warning in the Koch thread was unfair because of Falwell; and you’re saying you don’t think it’s going to change. So I would think that suggests that either you’ve misunderstood how we mod this stuff or that we don’t care about this complaint. (First one is the correct answer, but the complaint is useless either way.) > [@Oakminster](#): > > You modded me for “gun grabber”, when there was no legitimate way for me to anticipate such an arbitrary and capricious ruling. Pretty much every recent other thread on the subject contained much stronger language…yet you picked my post to suddenly apply a new rule of “civility” without prior notice. What happened after that? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-on-evil-peoples-deaths/649030.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rule-on-evil-peoples-deaths/649030.md?page=3)