# Rumsfeld should go now followed by GW next fall. **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 14, 2004, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfeld-should-go-now-followed-by-gw-next-fall/245122 "2004-05-14T15:34:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfeld-should-go-now-followed-by-gw-next-fall/245122/21 "2004-05-16T01:44:17Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > It’s not online anymore, but the June 30, 2003 issue of _The New Yorker_ had a nice long article about Rumsfeld and Gen. Tommy Franks. There was a LOT they didn’t see eye-to-eye on. And this article was written when things were going pretty well in Iraq. This one? [**The General’s War**](http://www.newyorker.com/online/content/?030630on_onlineonly01) ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfeld-should-go-now-followed-by-gw-next-fall/245122/22 "2004-05-16T02:48:21Z")
Ayup! It’s an interview about the article but it’s pretty good. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfeld-should-go-now-followed-by-gw-next-fall/245122/23 "2004-05-16T02:51:24Z")
There’s a [new article](http://www.newyorker.com/fact/content/?040524fa_fact) by Seymour Hersh in The New Yorker that [claims a “Rumsfeld policy allowed jail abuse”](http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/05/15/iraq.abuse.main/index.html) (CNN). Also, there’s a [pit thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=256377) on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 2:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfeld-should-go-now-followed-by-gw-next-fall/245122/24 "2004-05-16T02:55:54Z")
Speaking of the [New Yorker](http://newyorker.com/printable/?fact/040524fa_fact): It appears that Rumsfeld directly authorized the abuses and lied to congress about it. I know that’s not as bad as a blow job, but is there any way that Bush can now keep Rummy around? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfeld-should-go-now-followed-by-gw-next-fall/245122/25 "2004-05-16T03:08:12Z")
D’oh. Scooped by **leander**. I really neeed to try that “preview” thingamabob. ---
**Author:** ![Stoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stoid/32/272_2.png) [@Stoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stoid)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfeld-should-go-now-followed-by-gw-next-fall/245122/26 "2004-05-16T05:23:57Z")
> [@David Simmons](#): > > Colin Powell was even quoted in the _Times_ as stating that if the new Iraqi government were to ask us to pull our troops out immediately, we would do so and this was confirmed by “an administration spokesman.” This is only meaningful if the new Iraaqi government is not installed by the US. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2004, 7:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfeld-should-go-now-followed-by-gw-next-fall/245122/27 "2004-05-16T07:09:00Z")
> [@Stoid](#): > > This is only meaningful if the new Iraaqi government is not installed by the US. The _Times_ story I linked also said that Powell didn’t expect any new Iraq government to make such a request. One installed by the US certainly wouldn’t because the presence of US forces would be the only thing keeping such a government in power. However, the important thing is that the US is on record as saying that we wouls withdraw at the request of the Iraqis. The point of my post was that members of the administration have “flip-flopped,” to use their favorite descriptive, because the party line was that we would decide when it was time for us to go, and that to me is an improvement. You know an “If you are in a hole, stop digging” sort of thing. One thing that really pisses me off about GW is that he gets a grandious and unrealistic scheme, like bringing democracy to Iraq, and since he is the President that immediately involves the US and all its citizens and then he insists that he will stay the course even if it leads over a cliff. I’m glad to see any hint of flexibility because, after all, he will be President until the coming 20th of January which is plenty of time for things to get worse given a bullheaded approach. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfeld-should-go-now-followed-by-gw-next-fall/245122.md?page=1)