# Rumsfield claims a trained ape could manage war better than Obama **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 25, 2014, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfield-claims-a-trained-ape-could-manage-war-better-than-obama/684547 "2014-03-25T19:48:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfield-claims-a-trained-ape-could-manage-war-better-than-obama/684547/61 "2014-03-26T02:48:48Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > [Amy Adams will be so disappointed in you.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17222810&postcount=48) She’s a kiss kiss yumm yumm sweet girl and doesn’t like when guys are such blithering idiots. Oh, heck, I have run into him before, and within the past week or so. ---
**Author:** ![splatterpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@splatterpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatterpunk)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfield-claims-a-trained-ape-could-manage-war-better-than-obama/684547/62 "2014-03-26T03:19:11Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Recently, I tried to express my opinion of the current POTUS and his wife and I see that many people strongly disagreed with me. In addition, many people were also quite cruel in their response to me. > > Well, … fair enough. I supposed that I asked for it and sure as heck did get it. > > I certainly can understand why people reacted in the way they did and I am truly very sorry to have created such a firestorm. > > However I do wish to say that I did express my true opinion of this POTUS and his wife and his abilities to govern. > > I truly do think he is a poor and foolish President and I’m sorry but I just cannot help thinking that in several ways, he is also a fool. > > I’m just happy that we all have the ability to stand up and express our opinions in this society. That is the main point I now want to make. > > Regardless of how I feel about this POTUS, I truly do love America and I do love the fact that we all have freedom of speech. Our forefathers had to fight and die for that freedom and we may well have to do the same one day. However, it is certainly worth fighting and dying to preserve that freedom and I want to say is that freedom surely is worth fighting and dying to preserve if we have to do that again. > > So, regardless of how much we may disagree about this POTUS, I wish to say that like it or not, we are all in this together. > > I can understand that many of you do not like that and many of you wish I would just leave or die or something similar. Well, that is your right and I just hope that you do not find yourself needing to fight to preserve that right any time soon. > > I wish us all the best of luck. I can’t help but picture this post (or any of **Charlie Wayne** ’s posts) as being spoken by [Cheswick](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-K61Lzmn-_4E/TnZcVm7e1JI/AAAAAAAAFNs/yhLpzZgOexo/s1600/OneFlewOver_032Pyxurz.jpg)in _One Flew Over The Cuckoo’s Nest_. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfield-claims-a-trained-ape-could-manage-war-better-than-obama/684547/63 "2014-03-26T03:30:22Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why of his wife? What’s she got to do with anything? She’s not some kind of hideous soulless inhuman monster like Nancy Reagan, is she? Michelle wants kids to eat healthy, and according to the right wing noise machine that makes her evil, because today’s Republican party is apparently run by people who are still mad at their parents for making them eat their broccoli and wouldn’t let them have ice cream for breakfast. ---
**Author:** ![Ace309](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ace309/32/1050_2.png) [@Ace309](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ace309)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfield-claims-a-trained-ape-could-manage-war-better-than-obama/684547/64 "2014-03-26T04:06:37Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Recently, I tried to express my opinion of the current POTUS and his wife and I see that many people strongly disagreed with me. In addition, many people were also quite cruel in their response to me. > > Well, … fair enough. I supposed that I asked for it and sure as heck did get it. > > I certainly can understand why people reacted in the way they did and I am truly very sorry to have created such a firestorm. > > However I do wish to say that I did express my true opinion of this POTUS and his wife and his abilities to govern. > > I truly do think he is a poor and foolish President and I’m sorry but I just cannot help thinking that in several ways, he is also a fool. > > I’m just happy that we all have the ability to stand up and express our opinions in this society. That is the main point I now want to make. > > Regardless of how I feel about this POTUS, I truly do love America and I do love the fact that we all have freedom of speech. Our forefathers had to fight and die for that freedom and we may well have to do the same one day. However, it is certainly worth fighting and dying to preserve that freedom and I want to say is that freedom surely is worth fighting and dying to preserve if we have to do that again. > > So, regardless of how much we may disagree about this POTUS, I wish to say that like it or not, we are all in this together. > > I can understand that many of you do not like that and many of you wish I would just leave or die or something similar. Well, that is your right and I just hope that you do not find yourself needing to fight to preserve that right any time soon. > > I wish us all the best of luck. tl,dr: “Man, tough crowd. Maybe I should have called her Moochelle.” ---
**Author:** ![Askthepizzaguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askthepizzaguy/32/9405_2.png) [@Askthepizzaguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askthepizzaguy)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfield-claims-a-trained-ape-could-manage-war-better-than-obama/684547/65 "2014-03-26T04:27:46Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Recently, I tried to express my opinion of the current POTUS and his wife and I see that many people strongly disagreed with me. In addition, many people were also quite cruel in their response to me. > > Well, … fair enough. I supposed that I asked for it and sure as heck did get it. Issue: It’s become fashionable to throw lit bags of feces at the current President. It has no shock value, it isn’t particularly brave, it isn’t unique, it doesn’t have to be informed. Only ideological liberals and moderates who have a working brain cell related to memory think Obama is an improvement over Bush. Ideological conservatives and people who pay absolutely no attention to anything think they’re being edgy by slamming the President. In such an environment, you’re not the only insult comic on stage. Therefore if your comedy sucks, you’re going to get booed even by a friendly audience. If you’ve said nothing unique, nothing that hasn’t been uttered 1,005 times per day on conservative blogs, nothing that is particularly witty, and you insult someone who is _largely_ non-political and wields little or no actual power (such as the first lady) then you’re going to lose support, big time. Michelle Obama’s big contribution to big gubbermint liberalism has been to campaign for healthier foods in schools. That’s really controversial and offensive stuff right there. Whether you agree with her approach or not. Let’s say I dislike Russia’s Putin. Very well, I can have tons of legit criticism of him, and illegitimate criticism of him. He’s got supporters, he’s got detractors. So let’s say I run over to his (now) **[ex-wife](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyudmila_Putina)** and throw a rotten tomato at her face. Am I edgy? Am I funny? Did I make a valid political statement? Is she a valid target for my anti-Putin sentiments? Even if folks don’t like Putin, did I just help my cause by attacking someone who is largely not responsible for what Putin does? > [@](#): > > I certainly can understand why people reacted in the way they did and I am truly very sorry to have created such a firestorm. > > However I do wish to say that I did express my true opinion of this POTUS and his wife and his abilities to govern. > > I truly do think he is a poor and foolish President and I’m sorry but I just cannot help thinking that in several ways, he is also a fool. I challenge you to look at the governing abilities of the opposition party currently in control of the House of Representatives, with procedural delay powers and filibuster abuse galore in the Senate, constantly denying or blocking nominees to non-political positions in government that need oversight by someone. Take a look at the same folks who helped run up a huge budget deficit with absolutely no restraint, who cut taxes during a time of war, and then, two wars. Who raised the budget ceiling for themselves over and over, and now that the shoe is on the other foot, suddenly became such budget hawks that they wanted to reduce all of zero pork spending in their district, and instead chose to target the long-term unemployed, and make their lives miserable, in the name of fiscal prudence, then tarnished America’s credit rating by throwing a gigantic stink and causing us to default. These are not the actions of responsible stewards of governance. You can dislike liberals and Democrats all you want. But if all you bring to the discussion is personal attacks, and not unique, entertaining, or incisive ones at that, against the party or leader in power, then you’re a dime a dozen. There are hundreds of millions of people just like you, who have already done it and said it. Only the very stupidest (Hannity) most insulting (Savage) most extreme (Rush) commentators get an audience. They survive because they go lower than everyone else, and that makes them unique. Unique and shocking means they will get an audience, some of which will think they are wise, and brave for speaking truth to power. Of course, the only truth they’re speaking to power is the idea that Republicans can do no wrong. Only the most infantile mind could believe that, but there are lots of infantile minds out there, and they have to spend their money somewhere, and that leads to advertisements, which provides income which keep morons on the air, in spite of their vacuum of workable ideas. But only those who pander the most and be the most intellectually dishonest will survive in an environment where moderate and sane voices are boring, and just don’t have the same zip as someone who generates a nonstop string of aggressive no-think trash talk. If you want to criticize someone for their politics, go right ahead. But you need to bring something to the table besides nothing. It’s pretty easy to debate someone who isn’t even there to defend themselves. But you still fail if you say nothing of value at all. And if you’re going to say nothing, you have to be unique, shocking, insulting, and as stupid as you possibly can be, and turn yourself into a carnival sideshow, that’s the only way you can gain respect from the freak show audience. It’s one or the other. Bring ideas to the table, or be unique. That’s where you failed here. > [@](#): > > So, regardless of how much we may disagree about this POTUS, I wish to say that like it or not, we are all in this together. I voted for the guy and I have my complaints. I don’t want to watch the freak show. If you have something to say about how much the President sucks, articulate it in a way that can be debated. They’re a bunch of apes and morons, is not a debate. It’s not even interesting or funny. > [@](#): > > I can understand that many of you do not like that and many of you wish I would just leave or die or something similar. Well, that is your right and I just hope that you do not find yourself needing to fight to preserve that right any time soon. I doubt it. Contrary to certain scaremongering, my right to say what I want to say isn’t going anywhere, and I don’t need to be armed to the teeth in order to preserve that right, we have a Constitution and a Supreme Court that has that part covered. And even if I \*were \*armed to the teeth, that wouldn’t actually stop the US government if they chose to remove my rights. That’s just a fantasy by people who like to pretend they’re brave and important because they live in East Bumfuck Idaho who literally have \*nothing \*to do with their lives, and are afraid the gays and the blacks and the mexicans are going to corrupt their mighty culture of country music, guns, and cheese fries, with their different viewpoints and skin colors. That’s an awful lot of fear for a bunch of people with lots of guns and ammo, whose rational reaction to Obama getting elected was to stockpile a crapton more ammo. I promise you, Libya had a lot of ammo. And an actual paid, standing army. And a much bigger budget and way, way better technology than Earl Bob and Billy Joe have. It didn’t do shit. It speaks volumes to the rational thought process and connection to reality that people have that they believe the election of a President of a different political persuasion means they have to get ready for a new civil war. And that they’re so mentally feeble that they think it makes any difference. I can respect honest, sane, rational criticism of stuff. That makes our debate interesting. But what’s been brought to the table against this President, not just by you, but by every talk radio shock jock, just about every paid commentator, almost every columnist, and every single sitting Congressman, has been downright laughable. If he was as bad as you suggest, you’d have a \*lot \*better talking points to bring him down. And the sane and rational moderates and even liberals would agree with, at the very least, your criticisms. Maybe not everyone would be persuaded to start voting for Republicans, because take a good hard look at what they bring to the table sometime, and you might understand why folks vote Democratic as the “lesser” of two evils. I dare the opposition to bring real heat on this President. As time goes on, he looks like too much of a typical politician and mushy-middle of the road guy, who compromises far too often with the political party whose stated purpose is simply to block everything he does and bring him down. I lose a lot of respect for someone who keeps extending a hand to the side that spits on it. But I don’t have any \*respect \*for the opposition who brings such weak, pathetic, unoriginal, un-insightful criticisms and absolutely no solutions whatsoever. I’ve said it before, I used to have some, back when Republicans could balance a budget and occasionally govern even when a Democratic President was in charge. But it’s been 14 years since anything like that was possible. And it’s the empty insult rhetoric that I hear which I feel is the cause. No ideas? Just throw tomatoes and insult the opposition. After all, for those not in power, there’s no burden to actually try to improve the situation for people all across America who voted for these characters. And you certainly won’t find supporters of these creeps demanding them to actually do something besides flip Obama off every day. Because that’s all it takes to appease them. Because they’re simple minded people who value insults over anything resembling competency. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfield-claims-a-trained-ape-could-manage-war-better-than-obama/684547/66 "2014-03-26T05:02:35Z")
Pretty good post, **askthepizzaguy**. You might want to bookmark it, just in case you get an opportunity to direct it toward someone who has demonstrated the intellectual capacity to get something out of it. ---
**Author:** ![Accidental\_Martyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ce7236/32.png) [@Accidental\_Martyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Accidental_Martyr)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 5:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfield-claims-a-trained-ape-could-manage-war-better-than-obama/684547/67 "2014-03-26T05:04:23Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Why of his wife? What’s she got to do with anything? She’s not some kind of hideous soulless inhuman monster like Nancy Reagan, is she? He doesn’t like her clothes. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17112420&postcount=28](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17112420&postcount=28) ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfield-claims-a-trained-ape-could-manage-war-better-than-obama/684547/68 "2014-03-26T05:13:07Z")
Anyone who criticizes Obama’s war-managing ability after what we went through with Bush can only be a retarded chimpanzee. And it’s Rumsfeld, NOT Rumsfield, people. There’s no I in his name. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfield-claims-a-trained-ape-could-manage-war-better-than-obama/684547/69 "2014-03-26T07:43:55Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Anyone who criticizes Obama’s war-managing ability after what we went through with Bush can only be a retarded chimpanzee. > > And it’s Rumsfeld, NOT Rumsfield, people. There’s no I in his name. I’m pretty sure Donald Rumsfield went to the same school as Stephen Hawkings, Isaac Azimov, and Kim Jong the Second, though. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfield-claims-a-trained-ape-could-manage-war-better-than-obama/684547/70 "2014-03-26T07:55:32Z")
> [@Askthepizzaguy](#): > > Only the very stupidest (Hannity) most insulting (Savage) most extreme (Rush) commentators get an audience. They survive because they go lower than everyone else, and that makes them unique. Unique and shocking means they will get an audience, some of which will think they are wise, and brave for speaking truth to power. Of course, the only truth they’re speaking to power is the idea that Republicans can do no wrong. I applaud the thoughtfulness and eloquence of your post (though Charlie Wayne strikes me as entirely unworthy of your effort) but humbly propose a slight modifier to the above: Hannity, Savage and Limbaugh have as their premise that _true_ Republicans can do no wrong, and the moment a Republican varies from the pro-Jesus, anti-taxation, America-first script, that Republican is a betrayer. ---
**Author:** ![Penfeather](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/penfeather/32/384_2.png) [@Penfeather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Penfeather)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 7:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfield-claims-a-trained-ape-could-manage-war-better-than-obama/684547/71 "2014-03-26T07:57:35Z")
> [@ZipperJJ](#): > > [Amy Adams will be so disappointed in you.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=17222810&postcount=48) She’s a kiss kiss yumm yumm sweet girl and doesn’t like when guys are such blithering idiots. Let’s just hope he doesn’t go all John Hinckley for her. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfield-claims-a-trained-ape-could-manage-war-better-than-obama/684547/72 "2014-03-26T08:11:35Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > Let’s just hope he doesn’t go all John Hinckley for her. Nowadays Reagan isn’t going to impress anyone. It’s not like he can dodge. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 10:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfield-claims-a-trained-ape-could-manage-war-better-than-obama/684547/73 "2014-03-26T10:29:17Z")
You guys remember when saying anything like that about the sitting President was damn near treason? Good times. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfield-claims-a-trained-ape-could-manage-war-better-than-obama/684547/74 "2014-03-26T11:22:46Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > And yet the trained ape that Rumsfeld worked for didn’t get any better results out of Afghanistan either with or without Rumsfeld. False premise dude, **trained** ape, not just any old ape. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfield-claims-a-trained-ape-could-manage-war-better-than-obama/684547/75 "2014-03-26T11:35:08Z")
> [@Charlie\_Wayne](#): > > Recently, I tried to express my opinion of the current POTUS and his wife and I see that many people strongly disagreed with me. In addition, many people were also quite cruel in their response to me. > > Well, … fair enough. I supposed that I asked for it and sure as heck did get it… When you get to be your age and still find yourself lacking in mental capacity and wisdom, I advise you to limit your screeds to the kids playing on your lawn. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 11:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfield-claims-a-trained-ape-could-manage-war-better-than-obama/684547/76 "2014-03-26T11:49:45Z")
The trained ape thing, is that a known known, or an unknown known? ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfield-claims-a-trained-ape-could-manage-war-better-than-obama/684547/77 "2014-03-26T11:50:17Z")
If you decide that having a war is not worth the cost in lives and treasure, you don’t need to ‘run’ it. We are good at providing material for people who are actually threatened to help defend themselves. ---
**Author:** ![MostlyUseless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@MostlyUseless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MostlyUseless)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfield-claims-a-trained-ape-could-manage-war-better-than-obama/684547/78 "2014-03-26T11:52:29Z")
Charlie, If you pit someone or comment on something on this board, you had best have your shit together. Randomly sprouting the conservative line won’t cut it. I certainly have learned from my own shortcomings here. At the same time, don’t be a whiny bitch when you get caught short, that is just not manly. Just saying. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfield-claims-a-trained-ape-could-manage-war-better-than-obama/684547/79 "2014-03-26T11:56:49Z")
Can someone dig up a quote from Rumsfeld where he tells us how important it is to support the current president in a time of war? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2014, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfield-claims-a-trained-ape-could-manage-war-better-than-obama/684547/80 "2014-03-26T12:20:11Z")
> [@Smeghead](#): > > Can someone dig up a quote from Rumsfeld where he tells us how important it is to support the current president in a time of war? It was _alternating_ current. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfield-claims-a-trained-ape-could-manage-war-better-than-obama/684547.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rumsfield-claims-a-trained-ape-could-manage-war-better-than-obama/684547.md?page=5)