# Run For the Hills! (Government Shutdown in Effect) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 1, 2013, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068 "2013-10-01T04:12:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/181 "2013-10-02T02:18:48Z")
Why, we should form some sort of representative body to decide for ourselves how to spend our hard-earned money! Not some stupid “government.” ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/182 "2013-10-02T02:24:20Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > _eye roll_ > > Ponder this - if all of the areas/programs/people affected by this “shutdown” have been declared non-essential (as in, only “essential” personnel/programs will remain funded during this “crisis”), then why do they have jobs in the first place? Why are we funding/paying so many non-essential personnel/programs? > > Bear in mind, this is your sainted Administration making this distinction, not me. > > Well, no - I am too. I don’t care much for you, good sir. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/183 "2013-10-02T02:28:52Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > Why yes, this is the argument I want to make. Essential means “essential” - to the individual at the micro-level, the State at the macro-level. You, as an individual, decide what you need to survive at your level - the State decides what it needs to survive at it’s level. > > If the State decides that these are not essential services and functions, who am I to disagree? And if there are so many non-essential functions, then why do we continue to fund them? Money better spent on the essentials, or in our own pockets… This is just dumb. Is research an essential activity? We do, as a society, want cures from cancer or improved treatments for PTSD, right? We need to be able to manage passports, right? We want to have national parks, right? But in a crisis, are these critical? No. If the only jobs your want the government to be involved in are the ones that pertain essentially to life and death, you’ll get a much smaller government, that’s for sure. Whether it would be a particularly desirable government is pretty dubious. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/184 "2013-10-02T02:31:20Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Why, we should form some sort of representative body to decide for ourselves how to spend our hard-earned money! Not some stupid “government.” I don’t think this misrepresents the thinking of many conservatives. Some of them literally do say things like keep government out of my Medicare, or I was on food stamps and nobody helped me! ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/185 "2013-10-02T03:12:43Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > _eye roll_ > > Ponder this - if all of the areas/programs/people affected by this “shutdown” have been declared non-essential (as in, only “essential” personnel/programs will remain funded during this “crisis”), then why do they have jobs in the first place? Why are we funding/paying so many non-essential personnel/programs? > > Bear in mind, this is your sainted Administration making this distinction, not me. > > Well, no - I am too. Most people can name something not essential that is still worth having. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/186 "2013-10-02T03:18:00Z")
> [@drewtwo99](#): > > I don’t care much for you, good sir. Deal with it - it’s the (your?) Administration delineating what is essential or not, not me. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/187 "2013-10-02T03:19:41Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Most people can name something not essential that is still worth having. Most people can name something that is not essential that is still worth having if they **want** to fund it, not if they are forced to at gunpoint by a Federal bureaucracy. What, think I’m overstating things? Try not paying your taxes and see how many unicorns they dispatch to collect you. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/188 "2013-10-02T03:20:08Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Why, we should form some sort of representative body to decide for ourselves how to spend our hard-earned money! Not some stupid “government.” Sounds kinda collectivist to me. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/189 "2013-10-02T03:21:42Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > …Try not paying your taxes and see how many unicorns they dispatch to collect you. Hell, even if they just sent\* one\* it would be worth it! ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/190 "2013-10-02T03:25:16Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > Most people can name something that is not essential that is still worth having if they **want** to fund it, not if they are forced to at gunpoint by a Federal bureaucracy. > > What, think I’m overstating things? Try not paying your taxes and see how many unicorns they dispatch to collect you. I not only think you’re overstepping things, I think you have little idea about what you’re talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/191 "2013-10-02T03:26:35Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > Deal with it - it’s the (your?) Administration delineating what is essential or not, not me. It is however you, that is ignorantly defining \*essential \*like a weirdo. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/192 "2013-10-02T03:39:30Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > It is however you, that is ignorantly defining \*essential \*like a weirdo. _I_ haven’t defined a single thing, I’ve merely pointed out that the Federal government has decided to fund “essential services” - I haven’t even listed which ones - and yet I’m ignorant. Nice. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/193 "2013-10-02T03:51:36Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > _I_ haven’t defined a single thing, I’ve merely pointed out that the Federal government has decided to fund “essential services” - I haven’t even listed which ones - and yet I’m ignorant. > > Nice. Pretty much, yeah. You give little impression of having a basic understanding of the matter, and instead post stuff that is about of the caliber of the childish nonsense that floats through the transom of my Facebook page on a regular basis. More problematic is that you seem to have little inclination towards actually trying to get it. ---
**Author:** ![Werekoala](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7993a0/32.png) [@Werekoala](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Werekoala)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/194 "2013-10-02T03:58:18Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Pretty much, yeah. You give little impression of having a basic understanding of the matter, and instead post stuff that is about of the caliber of the childish nonsense that floats through the transom of my Facebook page on a regular basis. > > More problematic is that you seem to have little inclination towards actually trying to get it. Fine - you tell us what you consider essential services the Administration has chosen not to fund that you would have if it were up to you. Again - I have not mentioned anything specific one way or another, just said that if there are things not being funded that are not considered “essential”, then clearly we don’t need them. That is the textbook definition of “essential”. Go ahead, you clearly have some ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/195 "2013-10-02T04:13:22Z")
So let me get this straight: The shutdown is one Republican faction acting because they personally do not like this one law that has A) already been passed into law by Congress; and B) has withstood Supreme Court scrutiny? Is that correct? Because that is pretty despicable if it is true. That’s the Pubbies acting like little despots who can’t have their way. I hope the Democrats can make the public understand this, if that’s what is happening. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/196 "2013-10-02T04:37:32Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > So let me get this straight: The shutdown is one Republican faction acting because they personally do not like this one law that has A) already been passed into law by Congress; and B) has withstood Supreme Court scrutiny? Is that correct? Yes. > [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I hope the Democrats can make the public understand this, if that’s what is happening. The public does know this is happening. It doesn’t much matter. The Tea Party members of Congress are in relatively safe districts, so they don’t have too much to fear about the next election. As has been mentioned in several other threads, the Democrats in the House won more overall votes than their Republican counterparts. But the way the districts are drawn made this a Republican win. Of course, the more moderate members of the Republican Party might have reason to fear a public backlash, but they also have reason to fear a Tea Party backed challenger in the next election. Rock, meet hard place. They’re currently choosing the tiger they don’t see yet vs the tiger they do. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/197 "2013-10-02T04:44:29Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > Fine - you tell us what you consider essential services the Administration has chosen not to fund that you would have if it were up to you. I like to think of them as “services that, if interrupted, could cause people to come after the Members of Congress with pitchforks and torches.” Anyway, just want to make sure that I understand your position. Apparently, the staff and operations of national parks, and of museums such as the Smithsonian, are deemed non-essential for the purposes of this idiotic shutdown. Can I assume that you object to any of these institutions being government-funded? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/198 "2013-10-02T04:57:54Z")
OK, OK, but you have to take the money out of the Children’s Vaccine Fund! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/199 "2013-10-02T05:02:43Z")
> [@El\_Kabong](#): > > I like to think of them as “services that, if interrupted, could cause people to come after the Members of Congress with pitchforks and torches.” > > Anyway, just want to make sure that I understand your position. Apparently, the staff and operations of national parks, and of museums such as the Smithsonian, are deemed non-essential for the purposes of this idiotic shutdown. Can I assume that you object to any of these institutions being government-funded? I hope \*\*Werekoala \*\*had his flu shots already. > **[6 Ways the Government Shutdown Will Impact Science and Health](https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/6-ways-government-shutdown-will-affect-science-health/)** > > Consequences range from the National Zoo's panda cam going dark to the FDA being unable to support the majority of its food safety activities > [@](#): > > 1. Health agencies > > The government shutdown will affect the nation’s health agencies. The Department of Health and Human Services — which includes the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the National Institutes of Health, the Food and Drug Administration (FDA), and a number of other agencies and offices —will furlough 52 percent of its staff, or 40,512 people, the department said. > > A number of agencies’ websites may not be updated, and so they may contain out-of-date information. > > The CDC “will continue minimal support to protect the health and well-being of U.S. citizens here and abroad through a significantly reduced capacity to respond to outbreak investigations, processing of laboratory samples, and maintaining the agency’s 24/7 emergency operations center,” according to an HHS document. The agency will retain just 4,071 of its staff of 12,825 people. It will not be able to monitor current flu activity, or link outbreak information across states. > [@](#): > > Not all National Weather Service and National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (the NWS’s parent organization) employees will continue working though. Employees working on weather research — for example, in developing the Global Forecasting System (GFS) model — will not continue working during the shutdown, the Capital Weather Gang said. This model is a rival to a European model — both are being developed in an effort to find the most powerful and accurate weather forecast model. > > 1. Planet Earth > > The U.S. Geological Survey – the bureau that conducts Earth and natural science research for the Department of the Interior – provides water, environmental, and energy information to a variety of Federal agencies and emergency response organizations. Of its 8,623 employees distributed across more than 400 offices, only 43 are exempt from the shutdown, but 200 will remain on call in case of an emergency. Natural disaster programs including flood response, 24/7 earthquake monitoring program, and volcano observations will remain in effect, but the majority of scientific studies – including ecosystem restoration efforts and water quality collection and analysis – will be shut down. > > 1. Environmental protection > > Only about 7 percent of the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s 16,205 employees will continue working after the shutdown. While emergency response teams will remain intact, ongoing efforts to develop new emissions standards for existing and new power plants — with deadlines in 2014 — will be delayed, as will efforts to develop new renewable fuel standards, also with deadlines in 2014, according to Reuters. Animals used in research will be cared for and sensitive research samples — such as temperature-sensitive ice cores — will be maintained during the shutdown, but the research itself will terminate until the shutdown ends. Out of sight, out of mind? I do wonder if Republicans are pandering also to many republicans that reject science when it affects the bottom line of many polluters. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/200 "2013-10-02T05:10:50Z")
> [@Werekoala](#): > > Fine - you tell us what you consider essential services the Administration has chosen not to fund that you would have if it were up to you. > > Again - I have not mentioned anything specific one way or another, just said that if there are things not being funded that are not considered “essential”, then clearly we don’t need them. That is the textbook definition of “essential”. > > Go ahead, you clearly have some ideas. The IRS. The Patent and Trademark Office. The Small Business Administration. The Securities and Exchange Commission. The CDC. The NIH. Food safety inspections. I can go on, but you’re playing, perhaps, dumb about this all. The semantics of “essential” seem overly challenging to you for some strange reason. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068.md?page=11)