# Run For the Hills! (Government Shutdown in Effect) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 1, 2013, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068 "2013-10-01T04:12:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/221 "2013-10-02T14:21:56Z")
Right. Maybe a better answer for **Bricker** is one where US authorities clearly were in a position to detect the problem from the start. Remember the[salmonella contaminated spinach](http://www.oregonlive.com/health/index.ssf/2012/11/salmonella_in_spinach_fifth_fr.html) last year? The contamination was detected by a Department of Agriculture test. Not that the yokels who support the congresscritters perpetuating this shutdown are capable of wrapping their pea-sized, Old Confederacy-addled little brains around the significance of this point. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/222 "2013-10-02T14:21:58Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I am dubious of this claim. Do you have a cite for conservatives saying these things? Is your Google machine broked? The former: > **[Help Slate track the "Medicare isn't government" meme.](https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2009/08/help-slate-track-the-medicare-isn-t-government-meme.html)** > > "Keep your government hands off my Medicare." It was funny the first two or three times this angry citizen's cry against health reform got... The latter: Craig T. Nelson famously said that he was on both food stamps and welfare and did anyone help him out? No! [http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011\_07/the\_craig\_t\_nelson\_problem030622.php](http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/political-animal/2011_07/the_craig_t_nelson_problem030622.php) ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/223 "2013-10-02T14:23:03Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > It’s a meme that Liberals love to repeat. But does it ever actually happen? If it’s so common, surely someone can come up with a cite of a conservative actually saying it. [Here ya go.](http://www.3quarksdaily.com/.a/6a00d8341c562c53ef017742efed55970d-800wi) There are lots of these examples. ETA- Ninja’ed! ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/224 "2013-10-02T14:23:24Z")
> [@Raygun99](#): > > The latter comment refers to an infamously stupid comment made by Craig T. Nelson on Fox News: > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTwpBLzxe4U](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTwpBLzxe4U) Thanks. Anybody got a cite for the other one? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/225 "2013-10-02T14:25:13Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > [Here ya go.](http://www.3quarksdaily.com/.a/6a00d8341c562c53ef017742efed55970d-800wi) There are lots of these examples. > > ETA- Ninja’ed! That’s a picture of a sign. Who’s holding it? Is it a conservative? Based on the eyes of the woman (which is all we can see) I think she’s in on the joke. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/226 "2013-10-02T14:26:30Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > Here’s a Weekly Standard column which attempts to explain that the people who say “Keep the government out of Medicare” aren’t actually stupid. > > [http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/08/hands\_off\_my\_medicare\_1.asp](http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/08/hands_off_my_medicare_1.asp) Nice two-pronged approach: “that quote isn’t real! And even if it was, it’s true!” As noted in Ravenman’s link, the “keep your government hands off my Medicare!” quote comes from _Republican_ Bob Inglis, who had it yelled at him by a constituent during a town hall. There’s also Reagan economic advisor (and otherwise smart guy) Arthur Laffer, who infamously [said](http://mediamatters.org/video/2009/08/04/economist-laffer-on-cnn-just-wait-till-you-see/152856) “\*f you like the post office and the Department of Motor Vehicles and you think they’re run well, just wait till you see Medicare, Medicaid and health care done by the government.” ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/227 "2013-10-02T14:27:38Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > Is your Google machine broked? The former: > > [Help Slate track the "Medicare isn't government" meme.](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/prescriptions/2009/08/the_medicareisntgovernment_meme.html) So Slate set up an email inbox where people can send examples. [chatterbox@slate.com](mailto:chatterbox@slate.com). Where do you they post them? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/228 "2013-10-02T14:28:45Z")
Are we to pretend you actually care whether some conservative or another said this stupid thing? Surely your response will be that this person doesn’t reflect a significant portion of the GOP base. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/229 "2013-10-02T14:30:53Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > That’s a picture of a sign. Who’s holding it? Is it a conservative? Based on the eyes of the woman (which is all we can see) I think she’s in on the joke. That is your most pathetic response yet. Something in her eyes told you she wasn’t a conservative?? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/230 "2013-10-02T14:32:52Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > So in that article we’ve got Paul Krugman, Robert Inglis and Barack Obama all referencing people saying “keep the government out of medicare”, but no first hand accounts. > > It’s a meme that Liberals love to repeat. But does it ever actually happen? If it’s so common, surely someone can come up with a cite of a conservative actually saying it. The author of the article, Matthew Continetti, wrote: “But is it actually that silly to tell your elected representatives to “keep their government hands off” Medicare? . . . When people make this argument - and they probably don’t make it as often as is commonly accepted - they really are saying that they are comfortable with existing arrangements, and don’t want Washington messing around with things. Not a bad instinct to have.” Mr. Continetti is directly and clearly saying that people should not laugh when “Government out of my Medicare!” comes up, because he believes the people saying such things have a valid point. He’s going BEYOND just saying that phrase, he’s explaining the _underlying validity_ of it. He’s also specifically acknowledging that people actually use that phrase, and its variants. I’ve more than fulfilled your request for a cite. It’s like you just asked for a dollar, I gave you a five, and you’re asking where your four quarters are. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/231 "2013-10-02T14:34:28Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That is your most pathetic response yet. Something in her eyes told you she wasn’t a conservative?? [These are what conservative eyes look like.](http://bachmanneyezed.tumblr.com/) ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/232 "2013-10-02T14:52:06Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Nice two-pronged approach: “that quote isn’t real! And even if it was, it’s true!” As noted in Ravenman’s link, the “keep your government hands off my Medicare!” quote comes from _Republican_ Bob Inglis, who had it yelled at him by a constituent during a town hall. He said that a constituent said that to him. He said this on the same day that Obama shared the same anecdote, according to that Slate article. It sounds like he was “borrowing” Obama’s story. It’s a cute story, but I don’t think it’s real. > [@](#): > > There’s also Reagan economic advisor (and otherwise smart guy) Arthur Laffer, who infamously [said](http://mediamatters.org/video/2009/08/04/economist-laffer-on-cnn-just-wait-till-you-see/152856) “\*f you like the post office and the Department of Motor Vehicles and you think they’re run well, just wait till you see Medicare, Medicaid and health care done by the government.” That video gotcha is just a talking head mis-speaking. He corrects himself mid-sentence and says “health care” instead of “medicare/medicaid” which I think is what he meant to say in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/233 "2013-10-02T14:53:28Z")
People say dumb things all the time. Professing that nobody in the history of ever has said a particular dumb thing is a losing bet. Besides which, as has been pointed out, this particular thing isn’t even all that dumb. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/234 "2013-10-02T14:55:11Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That is your most pathetic response yet. Something in her eyes told you she wasn’t a conservative?? I have no idea who she is and if she’s conservative. But she looks like she’s laughing while holding the sign. It’s got a hammer and a sickle on it for crying out loud. I think it’s a joke. It’s very simple. The claim you guys make all the time is that conservatives routinely call for the government to get out of medicare and this is proof that people don’t know the government actually runs medicare and are stupid, or something. I’m just asking for proof of this claim. It’s a meme that’s been around for ages, so cites of Liberals referring to it are legion. I’m just asking for proof that conservatives actually believe this. I’m not seeing much so far. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/235 "2013-10-02T14:57:02Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > The author of the article, Matthew Continetti, wrote: “But is it actually that silly to tell your elected representatives to “keep their government hands off” Medicare? . . . When people make this argument - and they probably don’t make it as often as is commonly accepted - they really are saying that they are comfortable with existing arrangements, and don’t want Washington messing around with things. Not a bad instinct to have.” > > Mr. Continetti is directly and clearly saying that people should not laugh when “Government out of my Medicare!” comes up, because he believes the people saying such things have a valid point. He’s going BEYOND just saying that phrase, he’s explaining the _underlying validity_ of it. He’s also specifically acknowledging that people actually use that phrase, and its variants. > > I’ve more than fulfilled your request for a cite. It’s like you just asked for a dollar, I gave you a five, and you’re asking where your four quarters are. Apologies, but I have no idea who Matthew Continetti is. He writes for Slate, but he’s a conservative? I read his article, and I get the point he’s making. But it’s a different point than the silly one that Liberals often accuse those dumb Conservatives of making. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/236 "2013-10-02T14:58:06Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > It’s very simple. The claim you guys make all the time is that conservatives routinely call for the government to get out of medicare and this is proof that people don’t know the government actually runs medicare and are stupid, or something. > > I’m just asking for proof of this claim. It’s a meme that’s been around for ages, so cites of Liberals referring to it are legion. I’m just asking for proof that conservatives actually believe this. I’m not seeing much so far. You link to a post saying that conservatives _routinely_ call for the government to get out of Medicare, and then we’ll talk, m’kay? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/237 "2013-10-02T14:58:44Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > People say dumb things all the time. Professing that nobody in the history of ever has said a particular dumb thing is a losing bet. Besides which, as has been pointed out, this particular thing isn’t even all that dumb. I’ve made no bet. A claim was made. I asked for a cite of said claim. This is Great Debates. Given the amount and volume of Liberals complaining about conservatives saying this it must be very common, right? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/238 "2013-10-02T15:01:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You link to a post saying that conservatives _routinely_ call for the government to get out of Medicare, and then we’ll talk, m’kay? Post #184 of this thread. **Hentor** said this is the thinking of “many conservatives”. I guess two is many? 'Cause that’s all we’ve got so far and one of them was clearly mis-speaking and one of them writes for Slate and I’ve never heard of him. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/239 "2013-10-02T15:02:13Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > I’ve made no bet. A claim was made. I asked for a cite of said claim. This is Great Debates. Given the amount and volume of Liberals complaining about conservatives saying this it must be very common, right? Cite that liberals claim that this is a “very common” complaint first. Also, I know you didn’t make a bet. It would be silly to do so, because it’s an obviously losing bet. And anyway, these discussions about “X person said dumb thing”/“No they didn’t; prove it”/“OK, here are two examples”/“Two examples?! You said this was common! I need hundreds!”/etc. are fruitless and boring. Aren’t you almost falling asleep at your keyboard even trying to debate this? edit: by the way, the “I was on food stamps and nobody helped me!” guy was Craig Nelson. I saw him say it on the Daily Show. There are clips online if you’re curious. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/240 "2013-10-02T15:04:48Z")
That’s not what he said: > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I don’t think this misrepresents the thinking of many conservatives. Some of them literally do say things like keep government out of my Medicare, or I was on food stamps and nobody helped me! _Some_ of them say it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068.md?page=13)