# Run For the Hills! (Government Shutdown in Effect) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 1, 2013, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068 "2013-10-01T04:12:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/241 "2013-10-02T15:06:56Z")
ETA: [Matthew Continetti](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_Continetti) is married to Bill Krystol’s daughter. So he’s a conservative all right! So when people mock conservatives for saying “get your government hands off my Medicare” they really mean Matthew Continetti’s valid argument that even though Medicare is a government program they don’t want politicians messing around with things and they like the status quo? Nah. It’s Liberal porn, pure and simple. It fits right into all the stereotypes you wish were true of conservatives. It hits all the right buttons too. Kind of like “green jobs”. It’s like Liberal catnip. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/242 "2013-10-02T15:09:02Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That’s not what he said:_Some_ of them say it. Yes, _some_ of them say it, and that amounts to _many conservatives_ as he stated in the previous sentence. Clearly this must be said all the time by many people for it to come up in just about every thread on this board, right? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/243 "2013-10-02T15:09:14Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > He said that a constituent said that to him. He said this on the same day that Obama shared the same anecdote, according to that Slate article. It sounds like he was “borrowing” Obama’s story. > > It’s a cute story, but I don’t think it’s real. > > That video gotcha is just a talking head mis-speaking. He corrects himself mid-sentence and says “health care” instead of “medicare/medicaid” which I think is what he meant to say in the first place. You’ll be needing to see a neurologist soon. Handwaving like that will surely result in carpal tunnel issues. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/244 "2013-10-02T15:09:45Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > It’s Liberal porn, pure and simple. It fits right into all the stereotypes you wish were true of conservatives. It hits all the right buttons too. Kind of like “green jobs”. It’s like Liberal catnip. I am going to agree with **Debaser** on this, actually. It’s a stupid meme that fits people’s stereotypes and does not contribute to any sort of useful debate. We’d all be better off if we could stop the meme-ification of national politics, though I realize this is neither a new problem nor one that will stop any time soon. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/245 "2013-10-02T15:10:04Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Apologies, but I have no idea who Matthew Continetti is. He writes for Slate, but he’s a conservative? > > I read his article, and I get the point he’s making. But it’s a different point than the silly one that Liberals often accuse those dumb Conservatives of making. Are you pulling my chain, or are you not paying attention? I linked to the Weekly Standard. There’s nothing about Slate anywhere in my posts or the links I provided. In any case, I knew that your next lame retort would be to question whether the article was written by a conservative. Would you like a picture of his eyes to tell if he’s right wing enough for you? Would it suffice to inform you that he wrote a book entitled, “The Persecution of Sarah Palin: How the Elite Media Tried to Bring Down a Rising Star”? You asked for a cite showing that conservatives say, “Get government out of Medicare.” Your actual words were, “Do you have a cite for conservatives saying these things?” I provided you a cite from a conservative columnist for a conservative magazine who said that conservatives say “keep government out of Medicare” (and in fact provided a specific incident where a Republican congressman responded to that comment at a town hall), and the writer goes on to explain that the people who say that don’t deserve to be laughed at. Why don’t you just back off, and say we should end the hijack? Just like you did when literally everyone responded that you were wrong when you claimed that insurance is an investment? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/246 "2013-10-02T15:12:44Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > I am going to agree with **Debaser** on this, actually. It’s a stupid meme that fits people’s stereotypes and does not contribute to any sort of useful debate. We’d all be better off if we could stop the meme-ification of national politics, though I realize this is neither a new problem nor one that will stop any time soon. The issue isn’t whether or not it’s meaningful (which **Richard Parker** already addressed). It’s whether or not it’s true. **Debaser** is absolutely correct that it’s irrelevant, but he continues to claim it isn’t true (despite mounds of evidence to the contrary), so apparently he doesn’t really believe that. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/247 "2013-10-02T15:13:06Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > Yes, _some_ of them say it, and that amounts to _many conservatives_ as he stated in the previous sentence. > > Clearly this must be said all the time by many people for it to come up in just about every thread on this board, right? > > :rolleyes: Clearly, there are reading comprehension problems going on here. “some” is not “many”, and the part about the claim coming up “in just about every thread on this board” isn’t even worth rebutting, it is so over the top. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/248 "2013-10-02T15:17:27Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > In any case, I knew that your next lame retort would be to question whether the article was written by a conservative. Would you like a picture of his eyes to tell if he’s right wing enough for you? Would it suffice to inform you that he wrote a book entitled, “The Persecution of Sarah Palin: How the Elite Media Tried to Bring Down a Rising Star”? I know. I googled him and posted a link to his Wiki page which mentions the book. > [@](#): > > You asked for a cite showing that conservatives say, “Get government out of Medicare.” Your actual words were, “Do you have a cite for conservatives saying these things?” > > I provided you a cite from a conservative columnist for a conservative magazine who said that conservatives say “keep government out of Medicare” (and in fact provided a specific incident where a Republican congressman responded to that comment at a town hall), and the writer goes on to explain that the people who say that don’t deserve to be laughed at. You seriously are making this argument? That when people mock conservatives for being dummys and saying they want the government to get it’s hands off of Medicare they actually are referring to the thoughtful and logical argument that Continetti made? That’s laughable. It’s Liberal porn. As **MsWhatsit** points out it’s not helpful to any debate. It’s basically an insult without any basis. You might as well just post “Conservatives are poopy-heads.” That’s about as constructive and grounded in reality. That’s my point. I don’t expect all of you to get it. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/249 "2013-10-02T15:21:27Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I’m not sure what was confusing about my statement. It was pretty straightforward, and I’m hard pressed as to how it could have been clearer. Yes, testing non-meat products is also important, because deadly outbreaks can arise from them as well. How it could have been clearer: _If anyone thinks that food inspections for non-meat products are not important, I wonder if they remember a restaurant chain called Chi Chi’s? Although that specific example actually involved onions grown in Mexico, and thus not subject to FDA or USDA standards at the farm anyway, it illustrates the dangers of non-meat, food-borne illnesses._ Or, courtesy of **Try 2 B** : _If anyone thinks that food inspections for non-meat products are not important, remember the salmonella contaminated spinach last year? The contamination was detected by a Department of Agriculture test._ In other words, what could have made it clearer was some indication that you were illustrating only produce-borne illness, not a specific example in which government inspection would have helped. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/250 "2013-10-02T15:27:29Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > That’s my point. I don’t expect all of you to get it. Actually, **Debaser** , I get it – but I think you’d be better off acknowledging the simple fact that you got what you asked for, and then distinguishing it. By denying that you asked for a cite and you got a cite that was precisely what you requested, you’re looking intransigent or worse. Perhaps you’d fare better by agreeing that the cite says exactly what you asked for, and then pointing out that what you SHOULD have asked for in the first place was an example of a conservative saying that in a non-ironic, and non-nuanced way; the jab is thrown in an effort to show that conservatives don’t recognize Medicare is itself a creature of government and that’s not actually the case. So, “Show me a cite where a conservative says that in a context that actually shows ignorance of the fact that Medicare is government.” ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/251 "2013-10-02T15:28:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > the part about the claim coming up “in just about every thread on this board” isn’t even worth rebutting, it is so over the top. A quick search just of this year in GD… > [@Why does the U.S government refuse to pay its debts?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-the-u-s-government-refuse-to-pay-its-debts/663992/89): > > I find it fascinating, really, I do, that people think the government is wasteful and self-serving. What does the Postal Office get out Saturday delivery? What does the National Weather Service get out of flying airplanes into the eye of hurricanes? What does the USDA get out of regulating nutrition labels? I could go on and on. I sincerely believe that the people who decry about the waste of government are likely the ones using most rely on their services (e.g. “Keep your hands off my Medicare”). > [@A Challenge to Modern Liberals Regarding their Fealty to the Principles they Espouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/a-challenge-to-modern-liberals-regarding-their-fealty-to-the-principles-they-espouse/660693/109): > > Repeatedly. Booms and busts were far worse then. Recall the Great Depression? > > They don’t want to curtail it, except for the other guy. “Get your government hands off my Medicare!” The anti-government movement is fundamentally in denial of reality. > [@Why Are We Getting Gay Marriage, But Not Universal Health Care?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-are-we-getting-gay-marriage-but-not-universal-health-care/654581/31): > > Yep. They screamed it when Social Security was implemented back in the 1930s. When Medicare was proposed in the 1960s, Ronald Reagan himself said that he was happy with Social Security but Medicare was a step too far and would bring about the collapse of America. Now we get people screaming for the government to get its hands off their Medicare, but Obamacare is Marxist communist fascism gone mad. > > Excuse me if I don’t run panicking into the streets. > [@Democracy -\> people who cannot be led even from incipient ruin?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/democracy-people-who-cannot-be-led-even-from-incipient-ruin/646526/15): > > I think the problem is that we are delaying natural consequences. As long as the blue states subsidize the red states, conservatives are not having to live with the results of their policies. > > It happens on all fronts. The obvious one being that more money pours into conservative states than comes out, but there are also more subtle ones. The gay children of conservatives just move to the coast where they can live productive lives free from harassment while their parents in Dogpatchville go to church and talk about their son who “never found the right girl”. Conservatives can rant and rave about prohibiting abortion knowing that it is still safe and legal in case their little girl gets knocked up. States can underfund their education systems and then use tax breaks to attract companies that were started in areas of the country that had the foresight to place a value in top notch universities. Parents can lament the fact that “we removed God from the classroom” without the worry that their Mormon children will be proselytized by Baptist teachers who want to convert them to proper Christians. Tea Partiers can demand that the government keep their hands out of healthcare secure in the knowledge that Medicare provides them with affordable coverage. If we would let Florida pay for it’s own hurricane recovery, or Louisiana pay for it’s own levees, or Arizona live without the spending from all the retirees on Social Security maybe they would shut the fuck up for a moment. Of course it’s hyperbolic to say literally every thread. But you can’t deny that this is a meme that is widespread on this board and elsewhere. Obama’s even repeated it himself. It’s amazing they were all talking about Matthew Continetti, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/252 "2013-10-02T15:28:37Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > That’s my point. I don’t expect all of you to get it. There’s that fallacy again: “The reason you don’t agree with me is because you don’t understand me”. It is totally possible that we agree with you _because_ we understand what you are saying. BTW, would you mind sticking to just one argument? Either “Conservatives don’t say things like that”, or “They say it, but they mean something else”? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/253 "2013-10-02T15:28:42Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > This morning: > > “Poll Indicates GOP Has Been Deeply Damaged By Shutdown Fight”. > > [Poll Indicates GOP Has Been Deeply Damaged By Shutdown Fight - TPM – Talking Points Memo](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/poll-indicates-gop-has-been-deeply-damaged-by-shutdown-fight) Sorry, the cockles of MY heart won’t be warmed by that headline until I see it fifty-seven weeks from today… ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/254 "2013-10-02T15:31:04Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Actually, **Debaser** , I get it – but I think you’d be better off acknowledging the simple fact that you got what you asked for, and then distinguishing it. > > By denying that you asked for a cite and you got a cite that was precisely what you requested, you’re looking intransigent or worse. > > Perhaps you’d fare better by agreeing that the cite says exactly what you asked for, and then pointing out that what you SHOULD have asked for in the first place was an example of a conservative saying that in a non-ironic, and non-nuanced way; the jab is thrown in an effort to show that conservatives don’t recognize Medicare is itself a creature of government and that’s not actually the case. So, “Show me a cite where a conservative says that in a context that actually shows ignorance of the fact that Medicare is government.” You’re a better human being than I am, **Bricker**. I honestly have no idea where you find the patience. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/255 "2013-10-02T15:32:07Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > A quick search just of this year in GD… > > Of course it’s hyperbolic to say literally every thread. But you can’t deny that this is a meme that is widespread on this board and elsewhere. Obama’s even repeated it himself. Hyperbolic?? If you were to give a rough guess as to how many threads have been posted in the past year, what percentage of that would 4 be? ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/256 "2013-10-02T15:35:15Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > There’s that fallacy again: “The reason you don’t agree with me is because you don’t understand me”. It is totally possible that we agree with you _because_ we understand what you are saying. BTW, would you mind sticking to just one argument? Either “Conservatives don’t say things like that”, or “They say it, but they mean something else”? “Conservatives” in the general sense don’t say it. Maybe one idiot at one rally might have said it once or twice somewhere, I don’t know. But the idea that it’s a perspective that any serious number of conservatives have is just silly. On the other hand, Matthew Continetti did make a valid point which was quite different than simply not understanding that government runs medicare. That’s plain to see by reading what he wrote. As Bricker points out, this is obviously not what people have in mind when they accuse conservatives of believing that government should take it’s hands off medicare due to ignorance. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/257 "2013-10-02T15:37:32Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > You’re a better human being than I am, **Bricker**. I honestly have no idea where you find the patience. When it starts to get to him, he logs off and puts a kitten in a blender. Refreshed and rejuvenated, he returns. ---
**Author:** ![Debaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3da27b/32.png) [@Debaser](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Debaser)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/258 "2013-10-02T15:37:56Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Hyperbolic?? If you were to give a rough guess as to how many threads have been posted in the past year, what percentage of that would 4 be? Remind me never to tell a hunting or fishing story around you. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/259 "2013-10-02T15:39:44Z")
> [@Debaser](#): > > “Conservatives” in the general sense don’t say it. Maybe one idiot at one rally might have said it once or twice somewhere, I don’t know. But the idea that it’s a perspective that any serious number of conservatives have is just silly. > > On the other hand, Matthew Continetti did make a valid point which was quite different than simply not understanding that government runs medicare. That’s plain to see by reading what he wrote. As Bricker points out, this is obviously not what people have in mind when they accuse conservatives of believing that government should take it’s hands off medicare due to ignorance. Once again, which of the two _different_ points are you arguing here? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 2, 2013, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/260 "2013-10-02T15:40:53Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > It’s fundamental ignorance to suggest that the shutdown will be benign, or that most federal workers are doing essentially make-work jobs. It really is. Not necessarily. It _could_ be malice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068.md?page=14)