# Run For the Hills! (Government Shutdown in Effect) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 1, 2013, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068 "2013-10-01T04:12:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/461 "2013-10-03T21:48:31Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Do you mean those proposals that were designed to circumvent established law? I mean those proposals that would fund the treatment for the children the Democrats claim to care so much about. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/462 "2013-10-03T21:49:31Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > That’s a very silly argument. > > The shutdown effects hundreds of thousands of lives, if not millions. The children with cancer are just one small sliver. Pointing at them and fixing it piecemeal is utterly stupid because it ignores all the others. So - no treatment for those children, because of the Democrats’ principles - right? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/463 "2013-10-03T21:50:34Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I mean those proposals that would fund the treatment for the children the Democrats claim to care so much about. You can’t even say it, can you? Repeat after me: “Obamacare is law.” Go on, give it a try. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/464 "2013-10-03T21:51:46Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > So - no treatment for those children, because of the Democrats’ principles - right? The blackmailer has no principles: One should _never_ pay the Danegeld. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/465 "2013-10-03T21:52:38Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > So - no treatment for those children, because of the Democrats’ principles - right? I think it’s not so much for the principles for their own sake, but rather that those principles if allowed to be put into practice will save additional lives and provide additional treatment. So, no treatment for those children, so that a greater number of children can get treatment. A harsh viewpoint, but utilitarian. Moreover, if this attempt to circumvent Obamacare is successful, likely it will inspire other, similar attempts, again which will stymie Democratic efforts which are designed to help people. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/466 "2013-10-03T21:53:32Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > So - no treatment for those children, because of the Democrats’ principles - right? Are you having trouble understanding? There are other people suffering. Fixing a handful for a photo op, removes the urgency for the millions of others. The Republicans are hurting millions of people, that they want to walk back a handful because they don’t like how it looks only shows how utterly inhuman they are. It’s sickening, really. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/467 "2013-10-03T21:57:18Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > You can’t even say it, can you? Repeat after me: “Obamacare is law.” > Go on, give it a try. What does that have to do with Democrats today blocking the bill that would have funded treatment for children with cancer? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/468 "2013-10-03T21:58:40Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > The blackmailer has no principles: One should _never_ pay the Danegeld. Was it you who did the hostage-taker analogy? Hostage-taker: “I will let these two kids go.” Police: “No way. Why would we let you do that? No, you let them all out or none of them will be released”. right? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/469 "2013-10-03T21:59:43Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > It’s sickening, really. True. It is sickening that Democrats would sacrifice kids’ cancer treatment for “the greater good” as they see it. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/470 "2013-10-03T22:01:04Z")
Here’s the worst part of the shutdown for me. I would actually support a shutdown if the issue were the complete lack of any reasonable budgeting at the Federal level. And yes it is on both sides of the aisle. At issue should be that we need to say no to more debt (i.e. do not raise the debt ceiling) and if you want to spend more money, you need to raise more revenue or not spend the money. But over Obamacare? WTF!! It’s the law. We lost. CJ Roberts is a traitor. Let’s throw tea in Boston Harbour in protest. Whatever. PPACA has a lot of flaws and the Pubs could have worked to modify it. We have price limits on individual plans (the magic 9.5%). Let’s make price controls for family plans. Let’s extend medicare since the state mandate is unconstitutional. Let’s actually try to control medical (pull prices out of their ass) costs to lower insurance/medical costs. Hell, I’d even support a shutdown if Reid stonewalled that! But now Boehner wants to raise the debt limit to avoid default so what did we accomplish with the shutdown? 1. My complaint with the Comptroller of the Currency has been delayed. 2. The Republican Party yet again look like idiots. 3. Forget about having a shutdown because of a real financial issue like the debt which apparently isn’t even an issue for us :rolleyes:. 4. Obamacare is still the law. 5. Reid’s balls are now almost as big as former SotH [del]Skeletor[/del] Pelosi. Almost. I think it might be time to join the Libertarian Party. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/471 "2013-10-03T22:04:22Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > What does that have to do with Democrats today blocking the bill that would have funded treatment for children with cancer? …what have children with cancer got to do with the question you have dodged for the last few pages now? To quote from earlier in the thread: “What, exactly, are Republicans putting on the table for negotiation that should make Dems interested in sitting down?” ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/472 "2013-10-03T22:05:27Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > True. It is sickening that Democrats would sacrifice kids’ cancer treatment for “the greater good” as they see it. You’re ignoring the fact that the GOP is actually causing all the damage. The Cancer Kids™ are one data point of millions. The GOP is causing untold misery, and you are fixating on a few. That’s asinine. Heal everyone. They can stop it right now. Right fucking now. And they want to waste time fixing it for a few visible cases so they don’t look like such twats. Sickening. And you waving your pom-poms cheering them on isn’t great either. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/473 "2013-10-03T22:08:51Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > To quote from earlier in the thread: “What, exactly, are Republicans putting on the table for negotiation that should make Dems interested in sitting down?” It is pretty obvious. Democrats want the government shutdown to end. If Democrats don’t sit down and provide a way out for Republicans, it will not end. So if Democrats are willing to live with only “essential” government running, no, there is no need to negotiate. As I said, IMO this shutdown is a bit more drastic than gradual drowning the government in a bathtub, but you take what you can get. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/474 "2013-10-03T22:09:53Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > The GOP is causing untold misery, and you are fixating on a few. That’s asinine. Heal everyone. They can stop it right now. Right fucking now. So can Democrats. Right fucking now. But they refuse to do it. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/475 "2013-10-03T22:14:56Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > So can Democrats. Right fucking now. But they refuse to do it. Do you honestly think that’s equivalent? GOP: Destroy this law or we’ll make millions of our countrymen suffer and some will likely die. Dems: The law is in place. Please stop making our millions of countrymen suffer and possibly die. That is literally the situation. That you don’t see it suggests extreme partisanship. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/476 "2013-10-03T22:16:49Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > It is pretty obvious. Democrats want the government shutdown to end. If Democrats don’t sit down and provide a way out for Republicans, it will not end. So if Democrats are willing to live with only “essential” government running, no, there is no need to negotiate. > > As I said, IMO this shutdown is a bit more drastic than gradual drowning the government in a bathtub, but you take what you can get. …so your answer is the Republicans are putting nothing on the table for negotiation that should make Dems interested in sitting down. Which is at odds with what you said earlier in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/477 "2013-10-03T22:22:09Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > So can Democrats. Right fucking now. But they refuse to do it. There was _no_ shutdown until the Republicans held the nation hostage in a blatant attempt to kill established law they knew they didn’t have the power to repeal. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/478 "2013-10-03T22:24:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > True. It is sickening that Democrats would sacrifice kids’ cancer treatment for “the greater good” as they see it. Why, when that greater good includes greater avaliability for kid’s cancer treatments? It’s sickening to prefer cancer treatments for more kids? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/479 "2013-10-03T22:26:38Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …so your answer is the Republicans are putting nothing on the table for negotiation that should make Dems interested in sitting down. Which is at odds with what you said earlier in this thread. They don’t offer-they threaten. Compromise is weakness. _Enemies must be vanquished!_ ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2013, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/480 "2013-10-03T22:30:44Z")
Relevant quote from Abraham Lincoln’s [Cooper Union address](http://www.abrahamlincolnonline.org/lincoln/speeches/cooper.htm): > [@](#): > > And then it is to be remembered that “our fathers, who framed the Government under which we live” - the men who made the Constitution - decided this same Constitutional question in our favor, long ago - decided it without division among themselves, when making the decision; without division among themselves about the meaning of it after it was made, and, so far as any evidence is left, without basing it upon any mistaken statement of facts. > > Under all these circumstances, do you really feel yourselves justified to break up this Government unless such a court decision as yours is, shall be at once submitted to as a conclusive and final rule of political action? But you will not abide the election of a Republican president! In that supposed event, you say, you will destroy the Union; and then, you say, the great crime of having destroyed it will be upon us! That is cool. A highwayman holds a pistol to my ear, and mutters through his teeth, “Stand and deliver, or I shall kill you, and then you will be a murderer!” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068.md?page=23) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068.md?page=25)