# Run For the Hills! (Government Shutdown in Effect) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 1, 2013, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068 "2013-10-01T04:12:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 27
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/521 "2013-10-04T02:22:32Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > You are likely to be wondering how I smell? Not well, but good. I’m guessing you smell like Old Spice and stripper glitter. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/522 "2013-10-04T02:23:59Z")
Eat your heart out. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/523 "2013-10-04T02:29:50Z")
The penalty escalates and pretty quickly at that. Sure, the first year is 1% or $95, but in 2015 it’s 2% or $325 and in 2016 it’s 2.5% or $695. And remember, it’s the larger of those numbers. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/524 "2013-10-04T02:35:51Z")
A little late in the game, but I’m moving this to Elections from Great Debates. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 2:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/525 "2013-10-04T02:41:01Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And being fined $95 a year will make them sign up for $200/month policy? I could ask – is $95 worth shutting down the government over? I would have thought that Affordable Care opponents would want to emphasize how high it is. Of course, $95 is for 2014. It goes up in 2015 and then again in 2016. As for the serious answer to your question – the exchange premiums charged by the insurance companies came in a little lower than expected. So it seems that objective actuaries are thinking that a lot people, and not just those with pre-existing conditions, will indeed sign up. My question is: Why should I have to pay, through higher Blue Cross premiums, for the uninsured motorcyclist with a million dollar head injury? If this happens in 2020, and he has paid a tax penalty of several thousand of dollars over the past five years, society will have recouped at least some of the costs. True conservatives dislike freeloaders, which is why the Affordable Care Act is so similar to GOP health care plans prior to the point where Democrats embraced them. ---
**Author:** ![RickG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rickg/32/5174_2.png) [@RickG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickG)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/526 "2013-10-04T03:09:31Z")
> [@bengangmo](#): > > Many countries around the world have a statutory duty to “balance the budget”. As in, its illegal to allow for spending that the govt cannot pay from current revenues. Sovereign debt is as old as time. Which countries in the world have no debt and are prevented from taking any on? Do they have any sort of social safety nets? How do they balance a budget in recession? If tax revenues don’t meet the budgeted amount, do they just stop paying bills until the end of the fiscal year? There is nothing wrong with carrying debt, or even accumulating additional debt, as long as, in the long term, the debt service remains manageable. We have a long-term deficit issue that is closely tied to demographics. We do not have a short or medium term problem with current debt. If we default, we will have a huge debt problem in the short term, because interest rates on government debt will likely rise to cover the risk premium of Congress allowing (desiring?) this to happen repeatedly. > [@](#): > > Would it be terribly difficult, that when a budget is passed it also comes with the appropriate debt ceiling? Arguably, they already have. They authorized a budget with a deficit. A deficit which is lower than predicted this year, I might add. They should not be allowed to authorize a budget that includes deficits, then refuse to allow the Executive branch to borrow to cover that deficit spending. Stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/527 "2013-10-04T03:27:27Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > The penalty escalates and pretty quickly at that. Sure, the first year is 1% or $95, but in 2015 it’s 2% or $325 and in 2016 it’s 2.5% or $695. And remember, it’s the larger of those numbers. Remember, the Republican bill would delay it by 1 year. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/528 "2013-10-04T03:29:00Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > I could ask – is $95 worth shutting down the government over? I would have thought that Affordable Care opponents would want to emphasize how high it is. Apparently Democrats think that it is worth it. > [@](#): > > Of course, $95 is for 2014. It goes up in 2015 and then again in 2016. And Republican bill would delay it for one year. Not two or three. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/529 "2013-10-04T03:38:06Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Apparently Democrats think that it is worth it. > And Republican bill would delay it for one year. Not two or three. And I’m sure Republicans next year totally won’t ask for another year-long delay if not more. :dubious: No, no more. The Democrats have compromised enough, its about time they drew a line in the stand. Let this be our Verdun, our Stalingrad, our Berlin. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/530 "2013-10-04T03:45:14Z")
> [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > And I’m sure Republicans next year totally won’t ask for another year-long delay if not more. :dubious: Wait, I thought liberals reject the “slippery slope” arguments. Guess I was mistaken. > [@](#): > > No, no more. The Democrats have compromised enough, its about time they drew a line in the stand. Let this be our Verdun, our Stalingrad, our Berlin. Great. IMO, the longer the government is shut down, the better. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/531 "2013-10-04T03:50:22Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Wait, I thought liberals reject the “slippery slope” arguments. Guess I was mistaken. A slippery slope argument is “today event X, tomorrow much worse !!!1”. This is “today event X, tomorrow exactly the same event X”. Which seems reasonable : can you think of any reason for the Republicans \*not \*to reiterate their little shtick next year, if this year’s circus act got them a one year reprieve ? Nah, the Democrats would never get rid of the Dane. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/532 "2013-10-04T03:51:03Z")
> [@](#): > > …And Republican bill would delay it for one year. Not two or three. Really? That changes everything, hell, that’s not so bad, pretty reasonable. Waited this long, whats a year except maybe for a few thousand people who might very well have died anyway. So, the Republicans promise that if they get their year, they won’t make any more trouble about it? If they get lucky in the elections, they won’t suddenly change their minds? Is that a “cross their hearts and hope to turn gay” promise or just a “pinky promise”? Its that slinky temptress, once again, offering gool ol’ Charlie Brown a chance to kick the football. Never can remember her name… ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/533 "2013-10-04T03:52:15Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Really? That changes everything, hell, that’s not so bad, pretty reasonable. Waited this long, whats a year except maybe for a few thousand people who might very well have died anyway. Postponing the $95 fine will kill a few thousand people? Explain how. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/534 "2013-10-04T04:01:53Z")
Let me get this straight. They think they will need X amount of money to make this thing work. Your plan is “Hey! Why don’t you take this much less, then try it and see if you were right about how that isn’t enough! And if its not enough, the plan is a failure and you guys lose.” Brilliant. What could possibly go right? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/535 "2013-10-04T04:06:28Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Let me get this straight. They think they will need X amount of money to make this thing work. > > Your plan is “Hey! Why don’t you take this much less, then try it and see if you were right about how that isn’t enough! And if its not enough, the plan is a failure and you guys lose.” > > Brilliant. What could possibly go right? Yet postponing employer mandate apparently is ok. Doesn’t the same logic apply there too? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/536 "2013-10-04T04:17:16Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > Showing that 30 people support something is not showing that most of anything supports anything. How is ‘most Democrats’ the same as 30 people? Do you think there are only 59 Democrats in the entire country, therefore 30 of them equals ‘most’? You sure have an odd way of defining the word most. > > Also, and again, that does not make it a concession even if it were true. \*You cannot take something that YOU want and offer it to the other side as a concession. A concession is something you DO NOT want in exchange for something that you do. This is not that complicated. It IS complicated, actually. A) The Democrats “WANT” to repeal the tax on medical devices. B) The Republicans WANT to repeal the tax on medical devices. B) (i) The Republicans DO NOT want the Democrats to get anything that they want. (This sets up a cognitive dissonance in the Republicans’ heads, such that they can’t take it for themselves until the Democrats stop wanting it.) C) The Republicans “concede” to the Democrats by taking it anyway, even though the Democrats still “want” it. It’s like the husband and wife who hate each other but neither will seek a divorce because they’d have to share it. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/537 "2013-10-04T04:19:50Z")
“…but you’re 97, she’s 93, you been married for 71 years, why a divorce\* now\*?” “We wanted to wait until the kids were all dead.” ---
**Author:** ![drew870mitchell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drew870mitchell/32/3946_2.png) [@drew870mitchell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drew870mitchell)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/538 "2013-10-04T08:28:01Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Wait, I thought liberals reject the “slippery slope” arguments. Guess I was mistaken. Is **Qin Shi Huangdi** a liberal now? > [@](#): > > Great. IMO, the longer the government is shut down, the better. Thanks for at least finally saying what you really feel. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/539 "2013-10-04T08:31:49Z")
> [@drew870mitchell](#): > > Is **Qin Shi Huangdi** a liberal now? I know, right ? But then again, he ( **Qin** ) did write “let this be our…”, which caused something of a spit take this side of the screen. I… I think y’all might have flipped him, guys 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/540 "2013-10-04T08:38:31Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Great. IMO, the longer the government is shut down, the better. Are the nominations for _most ignorant thing said in the thread_ still open? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068.md?page=26) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068.md?page=28)