# Run For the Hills! (Government Shutdown in Effect) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 1, 2013, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068 "2013-10-01T04:12:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 30
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/581 "2013-10-04T18:59:00Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Lawful. Democratic. Apparently you have no idea what those concepts mean. Things don’t become true by repetition, although as an apparent connoisseur of right-wing media outlets I can see how you’d have come to that belief. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/582 "2013-10-04T18:59:30Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Do you think Obamacare helps more people than it hurts? Because the shutdown hurts more people than it helps. That’s your opinion. Mine differs. And now we shifted the goalposts from “hurting people is bad” to “hurting people is ok as long as you help more people than you hurt”? ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/583 "2013-10-04T19:02:41Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Legal. Democratic. Find out what that means. Destructive. Petty. Childish. Pointless. Those are even better words to describe the Republican shutdown of government. ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/584 "2013-10-04T19:03:15Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes. And the House is trying to change it, in a lawful and democratic way…or didn’t you notice? Wait, where? Oh, do you mean the 40-odd times they have tried and failed to repeal the law? Yes, I did notice that. I am unsure of what this has to do with the current spending resolution that needs to be passed to re-open the government. Or what it has to do with the debt ceiling increase that will have to occur in ~2 weeks. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/585 "2013-10-04T19:04:19Z")
Legal. Democratic. Bullying session. I’M NOT TOUCHING YOU! I’M NOT TOUCHING YOU! I’M NOT TOUCHING YOU! Meanwhile, the Senate and the President are standing across the room, saying STOP HITTING YOURSELF! STOP HITTING YOURSELF! STOP HITTING YOURSELF! ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/586 "2013-10-04T19:05:14Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > Wait, where? House Republicans’ actions. Lawful. Democratic. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/587 "2013-10-04T19:09:59Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > That’s your opinion. Mine differs. And now we shifted the goalposts from “hurting people is bad” to “hurting people is ok as long as you help more people than you hurt”? My opinion is based on facts and reality. Universal healthcare works the world over. Your position is based on what you wish was real. There is a very large difference. And you were the one who said any change hurts someone, I was asking you what you thought the breakdowns were. It’s your silly idea, defend and elaborate, please. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/588 "2013-10-04T19:11:07Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > House Republicans’ actions. Lawful. Democratic. It’s lawful because congress had enough self-control to not do it in the past. It’s not democratic in any way. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/589 "2013-10-04T19:17:47Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > And you were the one who said any change hurts someone, I was asking you what you thought the breakdowns were. It’s your silly idea, defend and elaborate, please. The only reason you think Obamacare helps more people than it hurts is because you(plural) operate by the principle of “the government knows better than you what is good for you”. I think Obamacare hurts more people than it helps. Ask all those people whose work hours have been reduced from 40 to 29. Ask all those young people who are forced to buy insurance that didn’t have to do it before. Ask all those people whose premiums just shot up. Hell, I looked at what Maryland’s current MHIP rates are for a family of 4 (that’s for people who could not get regular insurance - thus they got this state insurance, which was set at 2 to 3 times the “normal” premiums). And I compared them with comparable Obamacare insurances for Maryland from the exchange web site (it decided to actually work for a couple of hours last night). They are about the same - in terms of total yearly expenditure plus-minus a few percent. Note again, I am comparing Obamacare rates with the high-risk MHIP insurance that cost 2 to 3 times more than “normal” insurance. Now tell me Obamacare does not hurt all those “normal” insurance people whose premiums are going to increase dramatically. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/590 "2013-10-04T19:18:51Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > It’s not democratic in any way. Democratic - as in “the majority of House members voted for it”. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/591 "2013-10-04T19:29:12Z")
When I think about the Speaker refusing to schedule a vote on the Senate proposal to end the shutdown – almost certainly because it has the bipartisan support of a majority of the House – what words come to mind? Cowardly? Yes. Bullshit? Yes. Democratic? Not really. And I love how you keep going back to the Republican’s tactics to shut down government as being “legal.” Sure, they’re legal. In the same way that foreclosing on an orphanage is legal. In the same way that insurance companies cut off coverage to children with cancer is legal. I’ve said it before, but your tepid endorsement of the shutdown speaks more about how far out of the mainstream that you and the Tea Party is than it does to convince anyone that such views should be given any respect. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/592 "2013-10-04T19:30:38Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > When I think about the Speaker refusing to schedule a vote on the Senate proposal to end the shutdown – almost certainly because it has the bipartisan support of a majority of the House – what words come to mind? Standard House procedure. What do you think of Reid refusing bills to come to the floor of the Senate? ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/593 "2013-10-04T19:33:08Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > [Here](http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/federal-shutdown-idles-air-force-expert-honored-for-saving-government-1-billion/2013/10/02/a73a6ece-2b94-11e3-97a3-ff2758228523_story.html) is a story about an Air Force civilian who is credited with saving $1 billion for the Pentagon last year. Explain to me how you can use the words “bottomless teat” in relation to his job. I know mrAru [and indirectly me] saved the Navy almost a million $US on the late 80s refit of the USS Spadefish - he brought the handwheels home, we stripped off the old plastisol, and after they were dipped and baked he brought them home again and we trimmed the drips and made sure the coating was done properly. Who knew there were that many damned handwheels on a sub, but I peeled and trimmed handwheels for almost 4 months. [surprisingly easy to watch TV and do mindless repetitive tasks 😛] Well, at least it kept me from being bored. And there was that month when they went on port-and-starboard that could have gotten really boring. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/594 "2013-10-04T20:37:11Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Standard House procedure. What do you think of Reid refusing bills to come to the floor of the Senate? If the Speaker or the Majority Leader refuse to bring bills to the floor during normal times because of policy differences, I’d say that’s standard procedure. To prevent a vote on a bill that would end a national crisis and has the majority support of the body? That’s a different question. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/595 "2013-10-04T21:41:32Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > If the Speaker or the Majority Leader refuse to bring bills to the floor during normal times because of policy differences, I’d say that’s standard procedure. > > To prevent a vote on a bill that would end a national crisis and has the majority support of the body? That’s a different question. Of course. It’s whose bull is getting gored. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/596 "2013-10-04T21:58:42Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Of course. It’s whose bull is getting gored. No, it’s about the actual crisis we are in. You know, the crisis manufactured by conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/597 "2013-10-04T22:12:04Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > And I love how you keep going back to the Republican’s tactics to shut down government as being “legal.” Sure, they’re legal. In the same way that foreclosing on an orphanage is legal. In the same way that insurance companies cut off coverage to children with cancer is legal. I’ve said it before, but your tepid endorsement of the shutdown speaks more about how far out of the mainstream that you and the Tea Party is than it does to convince anyone that such views should be given any respect. Well, thanks to Obamacare, it is no longer legal for insurance companies to cut off coverage to children with cancer. And that’s terrible. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/598 "2013-10-04T22:29:10Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > Well, thanks to Obamacare, it is no longer legal for insurance companies to cut off coverage to children with cancer. And that’s terrible. What! That’s terrible! Someone should do something about that! Who will think of the poor little companies and the bottom line for the unfortunate shareholders? Won’t someone think of the shareholders? (cut to image of poor shareholders with big eyes holding out their tin cups) ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/599 "2013-10-04T22:56:49Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Any kind of change causes damage to _someone_’s well-being. Even Obamacare. Surprised? Whether Obamacare helps or hurts overall has been debated infinitely. But there’s no doubt that the shutdown is hurting millions of people right now, this instant. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/600 "2013-10-04T23:09:56Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Democratic - as in “the majority of House members voted for it”. Recent reports, which I assume you are aware of, say that if Boehner would permit it, a clean bill would be passed. Is it your belief that this is a lie? And if that is so, then Boehner and the people who carry his testes around in their pockets are actively thwarting the will of the people. Yes? And that, to you, is “democratic”? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068.md?page=29) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068.md?page=31)