# Run For the Hills! (Government Shutdown in Effect) **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [October 1, 2013, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068 "2013-10-01T04:12:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 31
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/601 "2013-10-04T23:19:08Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Recent reports, which I assume you are aware of, say that if Boehner would permit it, a clean bill would be passed. Is it your belief that this is a lie? And if that is so, then Boehner and the people who carry his testes around in their pockets are actively thwarting the will of the people. Yes? > > And that, to you, is “democratic”? Silly! He doesn’t mean the majority of the HOUSE…he means the majority of the REPUBLICANS in the House! Bills passed with the help of the Democrats are cheating! ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2013, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/602 "2013-10-04T23:34:13Z")
_"The House began – it is the view of every Republican in this body, and indeed every Republican in the House, that Obamacare should be entirely and completely repealed. Nonetheless, the House started with a compromise of saying not repealing Obamacare but simply that it should be defunded.” -Ted Cruz._ Here we see the end of reason being a requirement for being a US Senator. With an argument like that there is no limit to a starting position. Cruz might as well have threatened to shut down the government and ruin the nation’s credit if Obama and Biden didn’t agree to step down and turn the White House over to Speaker Boehner. Then negotiate that down to Obama agreeing to repeal the ACA. Then they could say they compromised from their starting position and it’s all Obama’s fault for refusing to deny 20,000,000 Americans a chance to get Affordable Health Care or else shut the government down, and default on our debt. > [@](#): > > Igor Bobic – October 4, 2013, 4:42 PM EDT1378 > Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX), or “the joint speaker of the House” as Harry Reid calls him, argued Friday that Republicans have already offered Democrats a concession in their stand against reopening the government by demanding not a full repeal of Obamacare, but merely the defunding of President Barack Obama signature health law. > > “The House of Representatives has repeatedly compromised already," said Cruz, who already who spoke against funding the law on the Senate floor for 21 hours earlier this month. "The House began – it is the view of every Republican in this body, and indeed every Republican in the House, that Obamacare should be entirely and completely repealed. Nonetheless, the House started with a compromise of saying not repealing Obamacare but simply that it should be defunded.” > > [Cruz: GOP Already Compromised By Demanding To Defund, Not Repeal Obamacare - TPM – Talking Points Memo](http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/cruz-gop-already-compromised-by-demanding-to-defund-not-repeal-obamacare) ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/603 "2013-10-05T00:19:15Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > Whether Obamacare helps or hurts overall has been debated infinitely. But there’s no doubt that the shutdown is hurting millions of people right now, this instant. And Obamacare is hurting millions of people. Just those whose work hours have been cut are a few hundred thousand at least. And it’s just the beginning. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/604 "2013-10-05T00:20:20Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Recent reports, which I assume you are aware of, say that if Boehner would permit it, a clean bill would be passed. Is it your belief that this is a lie? And if that is so, then Boehner and the people who carry his testes around in their pockets are actively thwarting the will of the people. Yes? > > And that, to you, is “democratic”? Would you like numerous examples of Reid or Pelosi refusing to bring bills to the floor. Were they “actively thwarting the will of the people”? ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/605 "2013-10-05T00:46:29Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Tell me, when Reid refused to even consider the Republican bill that would have continued those experimental treatments to children with cancer yesterday - was that justified? I didn’t think so at the time, but it turns out that, after this was publicized, the executive branch quickly declared the workers in question essential without need for a mini-appropriation. [Here is the situation](http://abcnews.go.com/Health/shutdown-prompts-fear-confusion-cancer-patients/story?id=20471232&page=2): > [@](#): > > The NIH said Tuesday that 200 patients will be blocked from starting clinical trials each week of the shutdown – including 10 children with cancer and 20 children with other ailments. It’s since received permission to bring employees back from furloughs to re-open clinical trial enrollment. > > Even so, what most people don’t know, Maris said, is that the federal government plays a key role in childhood cancer care and research. The National Cancer Institute, which is part of the NIH, runs a large proportion of clinical trials, which he fears may suffer during a prolonged shutdown. > > “It’s not going to have an impact today or tomorrow, but it’s going to have major impacts down the road,” Maris said, adding that he already knows of people who aren’t able to submit grants for research until the shutdown ends. People may – probably will – die years from now because of pre-clinical research being delayed. But at sequester-level funding of cancer research, that’s been going on all year. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 5, 2013, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/606 "2013-10-05T01:00:31Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Would you like numerous examples of Reid or Pelosi refusing to bring bills to the floor. Were they “actively thwarting the will of the people”? What an interesting answer to a question! My only regret is that it isn’t in any way an answer to _my_ question. Besides, the whole “liberal hypocrisy” \*schtick \*is patented, now you gotta send **Bricker** a nickel. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/607 "2013-10-06T16:20:10Z")
> [@Ravenman](#): > > If the Speaker or the Majority Leader refuse to bring bills to the floor during normal times because of policy differences, I’d say that’s standard procedure. > > To prevent a vote on a bill that would end a national crisis and has the majority support of the body? That’s a different question. Wrong. It’s bullshit in normal times and extraordinary times. In a House of 435 and a Senate of 100, the bills debated of a deliberative body should not left up to one person. I understand that in a legislature there would be so many motions that some control is needed but that is what committees are for. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/608 "2013-10-06T16:21:45Z")
I heard something about the federal workers will get paid for the period after all. That much has been passed. ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/609 "2013-10-06T17:08:02Z")
> [@Saint\_Cad](#): > > Wrong. It’s bullshit in normal times and extraordinary times. In a House of 435 and a Senate of 100, the bills debated of a deliberative body should not left up to one person. I understand that in a legislature there would be so many motions that some control is needed but that is what committees are for. That’s a nice ideal, but it is literally impossible to have a vote on every bill reported from a committee or passed by the other body if you actually expect any debate or amendment process. I’m not even going to get started on the whole idea that politicians should read the bills they’re voting on. And committees are not legislative traffic cops. You must have been misinformed somewhere along the way. ---
**Author:** ![computergeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@computergeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/computergeek)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/610 "2013-10-06T17:50:10Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > I heard something about the federal workers will get paid for the period after all. That much has been passed. Correct, though we have to wait until the shutdown is over to actually get paid. What’s more interesting is the DOD recalling many of its people usually legalease saying it’s to support the troops. ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/611 "2013-10-06T19:18:30Z")
> [@](#): > > That’s a nice ideal, but it is literally impossible to have a vote on every bill reported from a committee or passed by the other body if you actually expect any debate or amendment process. I’m not even going to get started on the whole idea that politicians should read the bills they’re voting on. Also one of the responsibilities of Congress is to fund the federal government. Obamacare is already fully funded, so there is no reason to not fund the parts that have been shut down. The money is there. ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/612 "2013-10-06T19:49:09Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > And Obamacare is hurting millions of people. Just those whose work hours have been cut are a few hundred thousand at least. And it’s just the beginning. [Disney World Promotes Part Time Workers to Full Time For Obamacare Benefits](http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/disney-world-promotes-part-time-workers) [Wal-Mart, the nation’s largest employer, announced Monday that 35,000 part-time employees will soon be moved to full-time status, entitling them to the full healthcare benefits that were scheduled to be denied them as a result of Wal-Mart’s efforts to avoid the requirements of Obamacare.](http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/09/25/wal-mart-returning-to-full-time-workers-obamacare-not-such-a-job-killer-after-all/) ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/613 "2013-10-06T22:06:55Z")
> [@Skip](#): > > [Disney World Promotes Part Time Workers to Full Time For Obamacare Benefits](http://crooksandliars.com/john-amato/disney-world-promotes-part-time-workers) > > [Wal-Mart, the nation’s largest employer, announced Monday that 35,000 part-time employees will soon be moved to full-time status, entitling them to the full healthcare benefits that were scheduled to be denied them as a result of Wal-Mart’s efforts to avoid the requirements of Obamacare.](http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2013/09/25/wal-mart-returning-to-full-time-workers-obamacare-not-such-a-job-killer-after-all/) > **[Colleges roll back faculty hours in response to Obamacare](https://www.msnbc.com/the-ed-show/colleges-roll-back-faculty-hours-response-msna17759)** > > As employers prepare to implement the Affordable Care Act, it's not just low-wage fast food workers who are feeling the heat. [http://m.freedomworks.org/blog/ameliahamilton/kroger-confronts-obamacare-by-reducing-employee-ho](http://m.freedomworks.org/blog/ameliahamilton/kroger-confronts-obamacare-by-reducing-employee-ho) [http://www.thebrennerbrief.com/2013/01/09/another-company-reducing-hours-due-to-obamacare-mandates/](http://www.thebrennerbrief.com/2013/01/09/another-company-reducing-hours-due-to-obamacare-mandates/) [http://articles.mcall.com/2013-06-27/news/mc-east-penn-obamacare-20130627\_1\_east-penn-school-board-health-benefits-school-director-julian-stolz](http://articles.mcall.com/2013-06-27/news/mc-east-penn-obamacare-20130627_1_east-penn-school-board-health-benefits-school-director-julian-stolz) > **[Pizza Chain CEO: 'I Don't Think People Know What They're Going To Pay For'...](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/papa-johns-obamacare-john-schnatter_n_2104202)** > > Pizza Chain CEO: 'I Don't Think People Know What They're Going To Pay For' Obamacare > **[Pizza Chain CEO: 'I Don't Think People Know What They're Going To Pay For'...](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/papa-johns-obamacare-john-schnatter_n_2104202)** > > Pizza Chain CEO: 'I Don't Think People Know What They're Going To Pay For' Obamacare [http://www.foodservicedirector.com/news/articles/district-cuts-foodservice-workers-hours-meet-obamacare](http://www.foodservicedirector.com/news/articles/district-cuts-foodservice-workers-hours-meet-obamacare) … I can bring in a few dozen more if you like. ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/614 "2013-10-06T22:39:00Z")
About that Papa John’s article… > [@](#): > > [Papa John’s CEO: My Obamacare claims were twisted](http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-34222_162-57553113-10391739/papa-johns-ceo-my-obamacare-claims-were-twisted/) > “Many in the media reported that I said Papa John’s is going to close stores and cut jobs because of Obamacare,” he wrote in the Huffington Post. “I never said that. The fact is we are going to open over hundreds of stores this year and next and increase employment by over 5,000 jobs worldwide. And, we have no plans to cut team hours as a result of the Affordable Care Act.” ---
**Author:** ![Skip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ebca7d/32.png) [@Skip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skip)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2013, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/615 "2013-10-06T23:24:02Z")
[Posted in wrong thread] ---
**Author:** ![computergeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@computergeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/computergeek)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/616 "2013-10-07T02:07:16Z")
> [@computergeek](#): > > Correct, though we have to wait until the shutdown is over to actually get paid. > > What’s more interesting is the DOD recalling many of its people usually legalease saying it’s to support the troops. Just to follow up, I’m one of those (many) people apparently. I go back to work tomorrow. I don’t think my job is all that essential, but I guess it’s better than sitting around the house. It will be interesting to see how this plays out politically. I would think Hagel got some kind of go-ahead from the administration before he tried this. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/617 "2013-10-07T04:18:46Z")
> [@computergeek](#): > > Correct, though we have to wait until the shutdown is over to actually get paid. Whenever something like this happens, do your creditors cut you some slack? I mean, they know you’re a federal employee and they know you’ll be paid eventually but not now. Is there ever a problem with creditors being hard-asses? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/618 "2013-10-07T05:29:59Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > … I can bring in a few dozen more if you like. looks more like a Google Vomit, the first link reports that: > [@](#): > > UPDATE: A spokesperson for Kean University denies that the school’s policy on hours for faculty members is new, or has anything to do with Obamacare. > > “The assignment of courses to all faculty members is a matter of academic judgment. It has nothing to do with a new university policy or the Affordable Health Care Act,” said Kean University’s Matthew Caruso over e-mail. As it was pointed before the requirement for the employer mandate that says that all businesses with 25 or more full-time employees have to provide health insurance for their employees has been delayed a year and won’t go into effect until Jan. 1 of 2015. Any dick moves done now are made for other reasons, IMHO a lot has to do with the current insane costs that employers have to pay. ---
**Author:** ![computergeek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e56c9b/32.png) [@computergeek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/computergeek)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/619 "2013-10-07T10:10:26Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Whenever something like this happens, do your creditors cut you some slack? I mean, they know you’re a federal employee and they know you’ll be paid eventually but not now. Is there ever a problem with creditors being hard-asses? I’ve never had to deal with that issue so I don’t know. I have enough in the bank to last awhile (though obviously I prefer not to). ---
**Author:** ![SmartAlecCat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SmartAlecCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SmartAlecCat)\ **Post date:** [October 7, 2013, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068/620 "2013-10-07T11:03:40Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > As it was pointed before the requirement for the employer mandate that says that all businesses with 25 or more full-time employees have to provide health insurance for their employees has been delayed a year and won’t go into effect until Jan. 1 of 2015. I believe while the regulations enforcing this via reporting and fines have been delayed, the actual employer mandate is still law… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068.md?page=30) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-for-the-hills-government-shutdown-in-effect/670068.md?page=32)