# "Run in circles, scream and shout" - from where? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 10, 2008, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-from-where/467313 "2008-10-10T13:51:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-from-where/467313/1 "2008-10-10T13:51:35Z")
“When in trouble or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout” - where did this quote come from? I googled it - and got a lot of hits _using_ it, but none citing who wrote it. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-from-where/467313/2 "2008-10-10T13:57:14Z")
Sounds like the Republican party manifesto! - scurries for thread door \* ---
**Author:** ![Giles](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/giles/32/60_2.png) [@Giles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Giles)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-from-where/467313/3 "2008-10-10T14:05:14Z")
From quick Googling, I’m thinking the most plausible source is a Burma Shave advertisement. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-from-where/467313/4 "2008-10-10T14:14:34Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Sounds like the Republican party manifesto! > > - scurries for thread door \* Political jabs are not allowed in the General Questions forum. Do not do this again. This is an official warning. **Gfactor** General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-from-where/467313/5 "2008-10-10T14:26:49Z")
I first heard it in a Heinlein book. Number of the Beast, maybe. When in danger or in doubt Run in circles scream and shout ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-from-where/467313/6 "2008-10-10T14:28:09Z")
Calvin and Hobbes? That was my first gut reaction, but I have to be honest and say I haven’t a clue. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-from-where/467313/7 "2008-10-10T14:32:41Z")
Google Book search can quite often help, although you really have to be careful to look deeper to see if the supposed date is true. In this case, it is. 1929 > **[Infantry Journal](https://books.google.com/books?id=pj0cAAAAMAAJ&q=%22run%2Bin%2Bcircles%2Bscream%2Band%2Bshout%22%2Bdate:1900-1950&dq=%22run%2Bin%2Bcircles%2Bscream%2Band%2Bshout%22%2Bdate:1900-1950&lr=&num=30&as_brr=0&pgis=1)** Military. I can’t elaborate much, as the book has a limited preview. I’ll search my newspaper databases to see if anything turns up. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-from-where/467313/8 "2008-10-10T14:34:42Z")
You can also find it in Wouk’s “The Caine Mutiny”. It seems to come from WWII. The earliest cite I can find is from 1942: > [@](#): > > 1942 “The OCD [[Office of Civilian Defense]] began ringing the firebell at night and shouted all Americans would be bombed out of their beds if they didn’t immediately abandon apathy and begin to run in circles, scream, and shout . . .”—‘Chronicle Telegram’ (Elyria, Ohio), 26 October, page 2 With the full saying showing up in print in 1948: > [@](#): > > 1948 “The old Army War College used to have a football team whose slogan was ‘When in trouble when in doubt run in circles scream and shout.’ This slogan could be applied to our political leaders in Washington.”—‘Valley Morning Star’ (Harlingen, Texas), 9 May But, of course, Sam was able to find something earlier. Thanks, Sam. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-from-where/467313/9 "2008-10-10T14:52:31Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I first heard it in a Heinlein book. Number of the Beast, maybe. > > When in danger or in doubt > Run in circles scream and shout Yep i think it is from the Master too. According to [wikiquote](http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Robert_A._Heinlein) it was in “The Cat Who Walks Through Walls” ETA: oops, i see he was not :(, there goes my first answer in GQ ---
**Author:** ![dangermom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@dangermom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dangermom)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-from-where/467313/10 "2008-10-10T14:55:47Z")
But the citation says: > [@](#): > > The Cat Who Walks Through Walls (1985) > > ``` > * When in danger or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout. > o Richard Ames; chapter 2, p. 24 > > ``` 1985? It’s a lot older than that. ---
**Author:** ![Rocketeer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocketeer/32/4437_2.png) [@Rocketeer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rocketeer)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2008, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-from-where/467313/11 "2008-10-10T16:52:20Z")
I first read it in a Mad Magazine parody of Star Trek (“Star Blecch”) back in the mid sixties. ---
**Author:** ![Mama\_Zappa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/71e660/32.png) [@Mama\_Zappa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mama_Zappa)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-from-where/467313/12 "2008-10-11T02:31:25Z")
Thanks, all - it’s interesting to know it’s a pretty old expression even if we can’t find a definitive cite for the source. ---
**Author:** ![Rhubarb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/59ef9b/32.png) [@Rhubarb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rhubarb)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-from-where/467313/13 "2008-10-11T03:37:32Z")
Another anecdotal poster checking in; I heard it from my mother in the early/mid 60s as “Confucius say ‘When in confusion or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout!’”. No idea where she originally heard it, but it must have been in common usage for some time before that. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2008, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-from-where/467313/14 "2008-10-11T03:48:08Z")
My dad used to say- “When in panic, fear or doubt, scream and shout and run about.” I will ask him tomorrow where he thinks it came from, or when he first heard it. ---
**Author:** ![constantine](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3bc359/32.png) [@constantine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constantine)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-from-where/467313/15 "2008-10-13T00:17:23Z")
Sorry I’m coming to this thread late. This saying (or a variant of it) is also known as the Mongolian General Prudential Rule. (Google for some examples). I’m not really sure of the origin, but it looks like circa WWII. I had always heard it When uncertain, when in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout. I’m thinking about using as my epitaph. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-from-where/467313/16 "2008-10-13T01:17:10Z")
> [@constantine](#): > > I’m not really sure of the origin, but it looks like circa WWII. Nope. Origin is definitely before WWII. I found it from 1929. It almost certainly comes from a football team from the Naval War College sometime before WWII. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-from-where/467313/17 "2008-10-13T02:02:27Z")
I remember it from one of the Herman Wouk novels re WWll; he used it as “When in wonder or in doubt, Run in circles, scream and shout, Hoist the flag and fire a gun, Send the signal round, ‘Well Done’” I don’t remember which novel it was but the two characters involved in conversation were US Naval officers. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-from-where/467313/18 "2008-10-13T02:09:31Z")
For another data point for it being a common US Naval expression during WWII - Daniel Gallery used it in his WWII memoirs, in such a way as to make it clear that the expression was in common currency, and could be expected to be known by all ranks during the war. ---
**Author:** ![bungler91](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c77e96/32.png) [@bungler91](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bungler91)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2015, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-from-where/467313/19 "2015-11-28T20:26:35Z")
The Heinlein novel where this advice is found is “Time Enough for Love” (1973). Lazarus Long’s twin sisters Lapis Lazuli Long and Lorelei Lee Long mention it while their brother is instructing them prior to traveling back in time to the 20th century. As Heinlein was a former US Navy officer it’s quite likely that he coined this from an existing military usage. ---
**Author:** ![Wallaby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/dc4da7/32.png) [@Wallaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wallaby)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2015, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-from-where/467313/20 "2015-11-29T03:29:12Z")
> [@LouisB](#): > > I remember it from one of the Herman Wouk novels re WWll; he used it as > > “When in wonder or in doubt, > Run in circles, scream and shout, > Hoist the flag and fire a gun, > Send the signal round, ‘Well Done’” > > I don’t remember which novel it was but the two characters involved in conversation were US Naval officers. The Caine Mutiny used the first two lines. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-in-circles-scream-and-shout-from-where/467313.md?page=2)