# Run of the Mill? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 22, 2001, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-of-the-mill/58996 "2001-03-22T14:14:31Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Gazoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce73a5/32.png) [@Gazoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gazoo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2001, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-of-the-mill/58996/1 "2001-03-22T14:14:31Z")
Any idea of the origins of this phrase. It seems a little different than most slang-type phrases that have entered our vocabulary in that it has two different meanings. One example would be when I say, “When I’m at work, my dog has the run of the mill at home.” This seems to mean has full access to the entire area. The other way I’ve heard the phrase used is when I say, “That beagle of mine, he’s no run-of-the-mill dog!” This implies he his extraordinary in some way. Anyone know the origins of either or both meanings? Also, can you think of other phrases like this that seem to have two very distinct meanings? ---
**Author:** ![galen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecc23a/32.png) [@galen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2001, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-of-the-mill/58996/2 "2001-03-22T14:36:52Z")
This is the standard product produced by a mill (steel, flour, whatever) and is therefore ordinary. ---
**Author:** ![Gazoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce73a5/32.png) [@Gazoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gazoo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2001, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-of-the-mill/58996/3 "2001-03-22T16:03:45Z")
Okay, that could explain example two. How about the first example os “having the run of the mill?” And what about the dual meanings for the same phrase? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2001, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-of-the-mill/58996/4 "2001-03-22T16:45:04Z")
Usage #1 is simply a mixed metaphor. You’re mixing up “run of the mill” and “run of the house/yard/whatever.” ---
**Author:** ![TV\_time](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f17d59/32.png) [@TV\_time](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TV_time)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2001, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-of-the-mill/58996/5 "2001-03-22T17:17:26Z")
My old Irish grandmother (sorry, that should have read “Me ol’ Erin gran”) explained it one time as being the difference between goods homemade and manufactured at a mill in either England or one of the factories in Dublin that were sprouting up in her mother’s time. She said that all the women of rural sock would make cloth at home which was “truly gran’ stock t’was” while that produced by a mill was of a lower quality and especially “dint ha the love” that home-made goods had. She said that before long, everything average was called “run o’ the mill” but she was sure it started with cloth. We used to ask her questions by the hour not that her answers were always right (although I think this one might be) but just because we loved to here her speak. ---
**Author:** ![Gazoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce73a5/32.png) [@Gazoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gazoo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2001, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-of-the-mill/58996/6 "2001-03-22T17:31:29Z")
**minty green** , while I will grant you that “run of the mill” meaning “ordinary” certainly appears to be the more common usage, “run of the mill” to mean “free reign” is certainly a known and understood figure of speech. It is included in transcripts of no less than the [US House Judiciary Committee](http://commdocs.house.gov/committees/judiciary/hju61368.000/hju61368_0.htm): > [@](#): > > **Mr. GEKAS**. We thank the Senator for that statement, and, of course, he has the _run of the mill_ here. He may leave at any time to answer the call of the Senate. (Emphasis added.) Although, its _beginnings_ may be as a mixed metaphor, the phrase now has a dual life. What I’m trying to find is when each usage of the phrase began, and is there a connection to the meanings or did they form independent of each other. (Also if anyone can think of other phrases of this nature with two very different meanings.) ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2001, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-of-the-mill/58996/7 "2001-03-22T19:38:52Z")
Sorry, **Gazoo** , but all that proves is that you and Mr. Gekas are both wrong. [Roget’s Thesauras on “run of the mill”](http://www.bartleby.com/cgi-bin/texis/webinator/sitesearch?FILTER=colThesaurus&query=%22run+of+the+mill%22). [The American Heritage Dictionary on same](http://www.bartleby.com/61/99/R0349900.html). [Inigo Montoya] You keep using that phrase, run of the mill. I do not think it means what you think it means. [/Inigo Montoya] ---
**Author:** ![Gazoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce73a5/32.png) [@Gazoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gazoo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2001, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-of-the-mill/58996/8 "2001-03-22T20:00:05Z")
Yeah, I checked Roget’s and a few dictionary and word origin sites. I still think “run of the mill” meaning “free reign” is fairly common. But maybe I’m just dillusional. I wasn’t able to find any references to “run of the house/yard/etc.” though either to make it a “mixed” metaphor. Nor have I ever _heard_ anyone say he has the “run of the house.” I’m not saying it hasn’t been said/used, just that I’ve always heard it as “having the run of the _mill_.” ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2001, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-of-the-mill/58996/9 "2001-03-22T20:23:30Z")
I just ran a google search on “run +of +the house” and found several examples of the phrase in precisely the “free reign” or “no restrictions” meaning you ascribe to “run of the mill at home” in your OP. Here’s one from a “Run of the House” contest at the House of Blues where the prize was a year-long pass to every show. [http://www.hob.com/runofhouse/contestdetails.asp](http://www.hob.com/runofhouse/contestdetails.asp) Here’s another from an investment firm, offering a subscription plan that gives full access to all their services. [http://www.investmenthouse.com/subscribeall.htm](http://www.investmenthouse.com/subscribeall.htm) Shoot, here’s a post from a bulletin board that uses the exact same canine example as your OP: “When do you give your dog the run of the house?” [http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg\_id=0036Di](http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=0036Di) Interestingly, google also hits on many examples of “run of the house” _hotel rooms_, where it means pretty much the same thing as the “ordinary” sense of “run of the mill.” ---
**Author:** ![Gazoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ce73a5/32.png) [@Gazoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gazoo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2001, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-of-the-mill/58996/10 "2001-03-22T20:29:07Z")
Okay. I give. I just searched and searched, but amid the thousands of references to “run of the mill” meaning “ordinary,” I found only the prior cite and [this one](http://security-archive.merton.ox.ac.uk/nt-security-199907/0132.html) (which I give no weight) using it to mean “free reign.” Man, I’ve been using this term wrong for a long time. I feel so dirty. Why didn’t anyone ever tell me? ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2001, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-of-the-mill/58996/11 "2001-03-22T21:17:49Z")
Well, obviously, you need to spend more time hanging around people dedicated to fighting ingnorance. 😉 Seriously, though, I certainly wouldn’t have corrected you if you just tossed the phrase into a post or used it in conversation, since the meaning was clear enough./ But since you asked . . . minty green Former English Teacher ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2001, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/run-of-the-mill/58996/12 "2001-03-23T02:23:22Z")
I can find a few cites in Mathews, \* Dictionary of Americanism\* which say _mill run_ referring to lumber of average or standard cut. They go back to turn of the century or so. When, and if, there is a new JE Lighter, _American Slang, Vol III_, there almost certainly will be an answer.