# Runners vs Cyclists vs Speed Skaters **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 5, 2020, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/runners-vs-cyclists-vs-speed-skaters/914413 "2020-07-05T21:44:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/runners-vs-cyclists-vs-speed-skaters/914413/1 "2020-07-05T21:44:26Z")
At what distance will a top cyclist pass a top runner? How about a top skater? I know that a cyclist will beat a runner at less than 10k, because I just beat the top runner at a 10k on my bike and I’m in terrible shape (26 minutes was my time, and I had to slow down for cars and lights, etc.). I’m sure a top runner will beat a top cyclist at 100 yards or meters. Put another way, line them up on a magic track that can have bikers, runners, and ice skaters, say go. When does the cyclist pass the biker? When does the cyclist pass the skater, or does he/she? Maybe the biker gets off to a better start and then gets passed by the skater? Maybe the biker is never better than second place? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/runners-vs-cyclists-vs-speed-skaters/914413/2 "2020-07-05T22:02:06Z")
[From here.](https://www.outsideonline.com/1770076/who-would-win-100-usain-bolt-or-top-sprint-cyclist) > [@](#): > > To settle our debate, we turned to the University of Utah’s Jim Martin, a leading cycling biomechanist, who was nice enough to simulate a head-to-head race between Bolt and 2002 world sprint champion Sean Eadie. Martin used the measured power and aerodynamic drag Eadie produced during a 2002 race, accounted for the cyclist’s presumed slower reaction time at the start, then projected a 100-meter dash against Bolt’s 9.58 time. Result: Eadie by a spoke! The cyclist would pass a slightly fatiguing Bolt at 89.7 meters and would finish the sprint in 9.42 seconds ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/runners-vs-cyclists-vs-speed-skaters/914413/3 "2020-07-05T22:07:56Z")
Skaters (Youtube) [100m 9.45](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm84D8fNLvQ) [Opening 100m](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iq_wYaXJwcA) in a 500m race-9.37 ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/runners-vs-cyclists-vs-speed-skaters/914413/4 "2020-07-05T22:20:01Z")
That was unexpected! So, a speed skater beats them both to 100 m, and the runner comes in last. I think the top speed for a speed skater is faster than a bicycle (non-faring, non-recumbent), so I guess the speed skater gets to 100 m first and is never passed (leaving aside very long distances). Very interesting. Thanks, **coach**! ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/runners-vs-cyclists-vs-speed-skaters/914413/5 "2020-07-05T22:25:13Z")
I can’t find 10km biking records anywhere, but some amateur site showed some riders that were pretty close to the skating 10k speed record. I guess the bike might win at that distance? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/runners-vs-cyclists-vs-speed-skaters/914413/6 "2020-07-05T22:35:55Z")
[From here.](https://inlineskateworld.com/how-fast-do-speed-skaters-go-world-record-holders-and-ice-vs-road/) > For ice skating, the Olympic record at the 2018 Pyeongchang games set by Canadian Charles Hamelin was 1 min 23 seconds for 1000 m, which is an average speed of 40.9 kph (25.4mph), so going 25 mph on ice is considered pretty fast obviously, but keeping that up for a whole kilometre is heading significantly faster than running (but slower than cycling). World class cyclists routinely ride at 30-35 mph over time trial distances (25k). 25mph for extended distances is easily achievable by a good club level rider. Remember, cyclists not only have the leverage afforded by the bike’s gears but they can also achieve a better aero position. They also have the advantage of more or less straight roads or much larger, banked tracks. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/runners-vs-cyclists-vs-speed-skaters/914413/7 "2020-07-05T22:51:54Z")
Top speed skaters seem to go right around 30 mph for 3000+ meters, and around 33 mph for shorter distances. One guy averaged over 27 mph for an hour, which seems insane to me. I guess professional cyclists are faster than that. So, the runner loses, even at 100 meters, and so does the biker. When does the biker pass the skater? ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/runners-vs-cyclists-vs-speed-skaters/914413/8 "2020-07-05T23:16:48Z")
A top fuel dragster would make it to 100 meters in about 2.2 seconds at 200 MPH. But that’s probably not really relevant here. Still, I’m actually a little surprised it wouldn’t be further ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/runners-vs-cyclists-vs-speed-skaters/914413/9 "2020-07-05T23:33:29Z")
A single scull can make 12-13 MPH, but I have no idea how quickly they accelerate from a dead stop. The WR for 300 meters on inline skates is 23 seconds, so I suspect they would be pretty close to the ice skater. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2020, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/runners-vs-cyclists-vs-speed-skaters/914413/10 "2020-07-05T23:50:43Z")
The articles that I saw had speed ice skaters just a little faster than inline skaters. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 5:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/runners-vs-cyclists-vs-speed-skaters/914413/11 "2020-07-06T05:11:36Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Put another way, line them up on a magic track that can have bikers, runners, and ice skaters, say go. Ah, but put them on a treadmill… ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 10:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/runners-vs-cyclists-vs-speed-skaters/914413/12 "2020-07-06T10:51:07Z")
And limit their speed to 0.999… ---
**Author:** ![Treppenwitz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treppenwitz/32/3445_2.png) [@Treppenwitz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Treppenwitz)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/runners-vs-cyclists-vs-speed-skaters/914413/13 "2020-07-06T13:26:14Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > Top speed skaters seem to go right around 30 mph for 3000+ meters, and around 33 mph for shorter distances. One guy averaged over 27 mph for an hour, which seems insane to me. > > I guess professional cyclists are faster than that. The [current hour (track) record](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hour_record#UCI_unified_hour_record_(2014%E2%80%93present)) is held by Victor Campenaerts - just over 55 km (~ 34.2 mi). j ETA - for fairness, Brad Wiggins did 54.5 at sea level, so Victor Campenaerts being at altitude may have had some effect, but probably not that much. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/runners-vs-cyclists-vs-speed-skaters/914413/14 "2020-07-06T13:29:02Z")
Thanks! Speed Skaters and cyclists are definitely closer than I expected. After an hour, it’s a big difference, of course. I’m amazed at how fast speed skaters go, and they have no mechanical advantage, no gearing, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/runners-vs-cyclists-vs-speed-skaters/914413/15 "2020-07-06T13:46:22Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > I’m amazed at how fast speed skaters go, and they have no mechanical advantage, no gearing, etc. Perhaps that’s not quite correct. Mechanical work done is force multiplied by distance. Think about the how far a skater extents their leg and foot vs how far a cyclist does. The cyclist is constrained by the geometry of the bike pedals. The skater’s leg goes from an acute angle to fully extended. So while the cyclist has a gearing ratio to help, they are limited in how much work they can do with each stroke, compared to the stroke that the skater can do. Not sure if that’s a “mechanical advantage” or not, but semantics aside it’s likely why the skater can keep up with the gearing of the bicycle. ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/runners-vs-cyclists-vs-speed-skaters/914413/16 "2020-07-06T13:57:20Z")
I imagine they also have much less friction – skate-to-ice friction is probably less than rolling friction, and their cross-section is smaller, so less air friction as well. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9fc29f/32.png) [@Dead\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Cat)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/runners-vs-cyclists-vs-speed-skaters/914413/17 "2020-07-06T14:05:08Z")
I’m an average recreational cyclist, and my initial reaction to the OP was that 10k was going to be WAY too long - my first thought was I might be able to beat Bolt over 100m. But I’d forgotten he runs at ~25mph, which is pretty quick for an amateur cyclist, so that’s definitely not doable from a standing start. However, I’m confident I could quickly accelerate to 20mph and then maintain that for 3 minutes, so I’d be beating the mile world record-holding runner over that distance. I too am surprised that speed skaters can compete with cyclists for so long, though. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/runners-vs-cyclists-vs-speed-skaters/914413/18 "2020-07-06T14:12:11Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Not sure if that’s a “mechanical advantage” or not, but semantics aside it’s likely why the skater can keep up with the gearing of the bicycle. There is some technology that provides an advantage. > **[Clap skate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clap_skate)** > > The clap skate (also called clapper skates, clapskates, slap skates, slapskates, from Dutch klapschaatsⓘ) is a type of ice skate used in speed skating. Unlike in traditional skates where the blade is rigidly fixed to the boot, clap skates have the blade attached to the boot by a hinge at the front. This allows the blade to remain in contact with the ice longer, as the ankle can now be extended toward the end of the stroke, as well as for more natural movement, thereby distributing the energy of ... ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/runners-vs-cyclists-vs-speed-skaters/914413/19 "2020-07-06T15:30:37Z")
Yep, that’s what allows the skater to fully extend. I hesitate to call it [mechanical advantage](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_advantage) because it’s not a force or torque multiplier, but allows another part of the system (the skater’s leg) to increase its effectiveness. I think it’s essential. I wonder if there’s enough info on old-style skates to compare them to cyclists. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2020, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/runners-vs-cyclists-vs-speed-skaters/914413/20 "2020-07-06T15:39:09Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > skate-to-ice friction is probably less than rolling friction I could believe either one as lower friction. Just using the rule of thumb that friction is proportional to surface area doesn’t tell me which is lower. Speed skates have very narrow edges, but the edge digs into the ice which increases the contact area. Rolling bearings have small contact points, but there’s some fluid motion involved. I’d need to see some quantified measurements to be convinced either way. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/runners-vs-cyclists-vs-speed-skaters/914413.md?page=2)