# Running and knees **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 20, 2014, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-and-knees/707732 "2014-12-20T13:07:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DummyGladHands](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/49beb7/32.png) [@DummyGladHands](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DummyGladHands)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-and-knees/707732/21 "2014-12-22T19:29:03Z")
> [@](#): > > In addition, your stride is affected by the strength of various muscle groups. One often overlooked is the core (abs). When your core is weak, this affects shoulder/hip/knee alignment. Also quadriceps and hamstring, again affects alignment. This. After all kinds of doctors, a physical therapist diagnosed a weak core, specifically quads, to be the cause of my knee pain. Xrays showed my knees were just fine, they just hurt. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-and-knees/707732/22 "2014-12-22T19:49:32Z")
Some good suggestins so far. Instead of a treadmill/jogging machine you could try one of those eliptical machines, a static exercise bike or a rowing machine. If you wish to stick to the treadmill then perhaps only jog on it a few times a week. You said “after a week of jogging/walking”. Was this every day? Rest days are important. Your body needs to recover. This regime may not help, but I do believe daily workouts do take their toll. If the problem persists its probably best to buy another type of exercise machine mentioned above. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-and-knees/707732/23 "2014-12-22T19:58:36Z")
I was having knee paid a couple years ago as well…realized that even though I was running relatively slowly, I was plodding along and landing hard on my front foot out in front of me. Cleared it up by quickening my pace, shortening my stride and trying to make sure I was landing with my foot more underneath my body. I am not an expert. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-and-knees/707732/24 "2014-12-22T20:06:25Z")
> [@Sicks\_Ate](#): > > I was having knee paid a couple years ago as well…realized that even though I was running relatively slowly, I was plodding along and landing hard on my front foot out in front of me. Cleared it up by quickening my pace, shortening my stride and trying to make sure I was landing with my foot more underneath my body. > > **I am not an expert.** You still did the right thing. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-and-knees/707732/25 "2014-12-22T20:22:17Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > You still did the right thing. Thanks! I meant to point out as well, that I weigh in the 220s at the moment, so that’s a lot of weight on the poor joints. Sometimes I wish I was actually built like a distance runner. ---
**Author:** ![AnaMen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dfb087/32.png) [@AnaMen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AnaMen)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-and-knees/707732/26 "2014-12-22T20:30:52Z")
Thickly padded “supportive” shoes do nothing to enforce good running form. If you heelstrike in very thin or no shoes, it HURTS, so you stop immediately. To avoid knee stress, you should take small steps, never reach forward with your feet, and never push off the ground. If you are landing heavily, your joints are going to take the impact. Stay light on your feet and use your biggest muscles to lift your legs. If you get too tired to maintain proper form, it’s time to slow down or stop for the day. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-and-knees/707732/27 "2014-12-22T20:37:00Z")
One way to hurt your knees is to run by landing on your heels. Landing with a heel strike will shoot the landing force up through your knee and hips and can lead to injury. Instead, try landing more on the ball of the foot. When you land on the front of your foot, your leg is more bent and can better absorb the energy instead of transferring to your joints. It’s like landing on a spring versus a pole. Lookup running styles like barefoot, chi or pose. I have cysts on my ankle bones which were quite painful when running. By switching to a running style where I land on the ball of my foot, I no longer have pain. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-and-knees/707732/28 "2014-12-22T21:05:12Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > \*\*One way to hurt your knees is to run by landing on your heels. \*\* Landing with a heel strike will shoot the landing force up through your knee and hips and can lead to injury. Instead, try landing more on the ball of the foot. When you land on the front of your foot, your leg is more bent and can better absorb the energy instead of transferring to your joints. It’s like landing on a spring versus a pole. > > Lookup running styles like barefoot, chi or pose. I have cysts on my ankle bones which were quite painful when running. By switching to a running style where I land on the ball of my foot, I no longer have pain. You would see far more knee injuries if this were true. The vast majority of runners are heel strikers.the most common cause of knee problems are weak quads, crowned roads and uncontrolled/poorly controlled pronation. Not all runners have the strength to midfoot plant even if they wanted and I don’t feel that a midfoot plant goes well with a slow pace. As long as the footplant is under the center of gravity, there should be little or no extra impact compared to a midfoot plant. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-and-knees/707732/29 "2014-12-22T21:30:40Z")
Maybe I’m the only one or one of the very few that never bought in to the new shoe replacement after so many miles or after a few months. I use the same running shoes until they completely blow out on me. Been running since I was 50, and 56 now with no knee, hip or foot injuries. I actually went over 1,000 miles on a pair of Walmart “Starter” shoes, and my second pair of “Starter’s”, I’m over 300 miles on it, with no sign of blowing out on me either. I do put shoe pads in like Dr. Scholl’s or something similar that you can buy, and I also try to do most of my run alongside the road either on the grass or loose gravel, and not the hard pavement, but I get every mile out of my running shoes, until I can’t run in them any more. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-and-knees/707732/30 "2014-12-22T21:41:27Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I’m not a doctor, and this is anecdotal, obviously, but I think the emphasis on getting “the proper running shoe” is a bunch of hooey. Sorry, I didn’t see your post earlier, any others that may have expressed similar sentiments. I scanned briefly through the thread, and missed it. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2014, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-and-knees/707732/31 "2014-12-22T21:57:53Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > You would see far more knee injuries if this were true. The vast majority of runners are heel strikers.the most common cause of knee problems are weak quads, crowned roads and uncontrolled/poorly controlled pronation. > > Not all runners have the strength to midfoot plant even if they wanted and I don’t feel that a midfoot plant goes well with a slow pace. > As long as the footplant is under the center of gravity, there should be little or no extra impact compared to a midfoot plant. It probably depends on your own personal physiology whether or not a heel strike will cause injury. And likely how well conditioned they are. A lifetime runner who heel strikes may have developed the conditioning for it. A brand-new runner doing heel strike may have problems. When I was young, it never caused me a problem. It could be back then, my cartilage and such was more durable and able to take the stress. But in my 40-50’s, I was feeling pain in my ankles, knees and hips. I thought it was just normal getting old stuff. But when ankles seemed like they were always very sore (I mistakenly thought a slow-to-heal sprain), I went in for an MRI where they found the bone cysts. They allowed the cartilage to flex and caused swelling. I thought I was going to have to give up running, but the doc recommended landing on the forefront of my foot. It worked for me. I can run and have no more pain. It could be that I’m now more careful about my stride and that makes the difference, but whatever, it worked. I can’t look up the reference now, but check out the Indians in Mexico who run barefoot or with sandals made of tire-treads. They can run 50+ miles on a regular basis throughout their life. I’ve read one reasons is that they have a more natural running form which doesn’t cause as much injury. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-and-knees/707732/32 "2014-12-23T01:05:11Z")
> [@razncain](#): > > Maybe I’m the only one or one of the very few that never bought in to the new shoe replacement after so many miles or after a few months. I use the same running shoes until they completely blow out on me. Been running since I was 50, and 56 now with no knee, hip or foot injuries. I actually went over 1,000 miles on a pair of Walmart “Starter” shoes, and my second pair of “Starter’s”, I’m over 300 miles on it, with no sign of blowing out on me either. Nah, you’re not alone. (See my post above.) I think it’s mostly marketing BS. The “shoes-are-so-important” crowd reminds me of the audiophiles who insist I should use oxygen-free copper for my speaker wires. ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a88e4f/32.png) [@Digital\_is\_the\_new\_Analog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_is_the_new_Analog)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-and-knees/707732/33 "2014-12-23T02:05:01Z")
I wear out my shoes very unevenly, because of the way I strike the ground. This is true for both my work shoes and my running shoes. The heel starts to degrade on one side long before the other. If I don’t get new shoes (or at least new heels), my foot starts to hit at a greater angle, causing more problems. Some of you may be blessed with perfect mechanics and physical alignment. That doesn’t mean that the some of us don’t need proper equipment. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-and-knees/707732/34 "2014-12-23T04:47:05Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I think it’s mostly marketing BS. I can clearly feel the difference as my shoes wear out. When I get over 300 miles on a pair I can feel my legs much more after a run. I swap out shoes at roughly 350 miles and it seems to work for me. ---
**Author:** ![Wednesday\_Evening](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b2d939/32.png) [@Wednesday\_Evening](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wednesday_Evening)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-and-knees/707732/35 "2014-12-23T17:26:30Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I can clearly feel the difference as my shoes wear out. When I get over 300 miles on a pair I can feel my legs much more after a run. I swap out shoes at roughly 350 miles and it seems to work for me. ^^^this, although I usually replace my shoes at 400-450 miles. When my knees start hurting a bit, I know it’s time to replace. After getting new shoes, my knees feel great. This is probably a BGO\* after reading through this thread, but everybody is different so we will all have different running experiences and bodily requirements. YMMV, in some cases literally. \*Blinding Glimpse of the Obvious ---
**Author:** ![dzeiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-and-knees/707732/36 "2014-12-23T19:19:50Z")
Definitely agree with the recommendations to tell it to the doctor if it keeps up. This time last year I was working my way through a couch to 5K program. Halted for a couple of reasons, and when I started back walking this spring, I started getting knee pains myself. I just assumed it was tendonitis and let it rest, but it kept coming back every time I went out for a good walk, or even when I was on an exercise bike. Eventually went to my doctor, and was diagnosed with a bakers cyst as a result of age-related degeneration (aka arthritis). Been trying a couple different rounds of NSAIDs, with my current ones I can at least do the bike at the lowest intensity program level, but it looks like, long-term, I may be looking for something even lower than low-impact exercise (people keep recommending swimming. Never liked swimming or getting into the water at all) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2014, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-and-knees/707732/37 "2014-12-23T19:24:21Z")
Fast walking, esp on mild hills, is just as good and easier on the knees. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-and-knees/707732.md?page=1)