# Running out of battery power for an electric car **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 19, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-out-of-battery-power-for-an-electric-car/671687 "2013-10-19T22:59:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-out-of-battery-power-for-an-electric-car/671687/61 "2013-10-22T02:32:59Z")
> [@ZenBeam](#): > > The Wikipedia page [Electric Vehicle Battery](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_battery#Battery_cost_and_parity) uses cost per kWh. Ignorance fought. I am used to the practice of pricing power generation based on /kW. So when I saw / kwh i assumed an error as the price level was so high. After all your typical hair dryer operating for 20 minutes uses 1 kwh of power which the local utility will gladly sell to you for about 15 cents. I guess that batteries are priced on their ability to deliver each Kwh each cycle of operation an not on each Kwh. ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-out-of-battery-power-for-an-electric-car/671687/62 "2013-10-22T03:09:24Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > The Prius gas engine normally turns off and it runs only on batteries when possible, but it is programmed to not turn the gas engine off in what Toyoto considers very cold temperatures. I think that’s due to emissions regulations - the catalytic converter needs to be kept warm to keep emissions at an acceptable level. ---
**Author:** ![bengangmo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/50afbb/32.png) [@bengangmo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bengangmo)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-out-of-battery-power-for-an-electric-car/671687/63 "2013-10-22T08:34:44Z")
> [@am77494](#): > > The biggest question in this debate, long term, is the price of natural gas and the quantity that will be available. There are these options : > > 1\> Natural gas powered cars. Cons - Need mass infrastructure change, frequent refueling, less efficient, less boot space, … Pros - Car price does not go up, Folks spend less on fuel, … > > 2\> Electric powered cars. Cons - High Price of car, needs (less intensive) infrastructure change, limited drive time, refueling takes long time, less boot space too … Pros - Folks spend less on fuel, Overall efficiency high, … > > 3\> Convert Natural gas to Gasoline. Cons - Need new plants, may increase price of gas (?) … Pros - No change of current cars or infrastructure > > Again the above is from the US perspective. Just a nit pick on point 1 …the reason for less boot space is the tank is invariably aftermarket. If the car was designed from the ground up as a Natural Gas Vehicle, this would likely be very different. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 10:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-out-of-battery-power-for-an-electric-car/671687/64 "2013-10-22T10:58:02Z")
The Civic one is designed from the ground up and has significantly less trunk space. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-out-of-battery-power-for-an-electric-car/671687/65 "2013-10-22T13:57:49Z")
Re- batteries in low temperatures- I thought a battery held the same kwh at any temperature, only the chemical reactions, and therefore the output, were reduced in cold temperatures, and that this could be overcome via the right design. For example, the Tesla’s battery consists of 6000+ individual cells which the computer chooses to draw from or not depending on circumstances. In the cold, couldn’t it simply draw from more cells to achieve the same output? An effect not available in batteries with a different design, like the Prius. If anyone can confirm or deny this notion, I’d appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-out-of-battery-power-for-an-electric-car/671687/66 "2013-10-22T14:39:35Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > The Civic one is designed from the ground up and has significantly less trunk space. Well, at least it’s originally manufactured by Honda as a NG powered vehicle on the same platform as the other Civic models, and never had a gas tank fitted to it in the first place, so presumably they did the best job they could of retaining trunk space while fitting in a CNG tank. That’s why I made the comparison - obviously it wouldn’t be fair to compare aftermarket conversions. AFAIK, this is the only CNG passenger car one can buy directly from a major manufacturer. I’ll concede that if they wanted to design a brand new platform with accomodating CNG tanks in mind, they might be able to use space better. Still, the point remains that pressurized tanks are bulkier items than gas tanks in general. I might also point out that in addition to less trunk space the NG Civic has less range than the base Civic, because you effectively can’t put as much fuel in it. Something in the vicinity of 250 miles as opposed to 400. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Niply\_Elder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e8cbc/32.png) [@The\_Niply\_Elder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Niply_Elder)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-out-of-battery-power-for-an-electric-car/671687/67 "2013-10-22T14:54:11Z")
> [@BubbaDog](#): > > Ignorance fought. I am used to the practice of pricing power generation based on /kW. So when I saw / kwh i assumed an error as the price level was so high. After all your typical hair dryer operating for 20 minutes uses 1 kwh of power which the local utility will gladly sell to you for about 15 cents. > > I guess that batteries are priced on their ability to deliver each Kwh each cycle of operation an not on each Kwh. That infographic was referring to manufacturing costs of the batteries. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-out-of-battery-power-for-an-electric-car/671687/68 "2013-10-22T18:06:27Z")
> [@The\_Niply\_Elder](#): > > That infographic was referring to manufacturing costs of the batteries. I’m not sure why you posted this since I never refuted it. My ignorance was fought when I was shown that battery costs (minus charging costs) are stated present value for the cost of delivering one kWh of power repeatedly over the lifetime of the battery (3650 cycles was used for some base calculations). This differs from power industry standards which establishes a fixed cost based on the capacity only. Hence a generator might have a construction cost of 800 /kw. (note that its /kW not $/kWh) Including fuel costs a power source could also be evaluated on the cost of delivery each individual kWh. The all-in costs for a power source would fall into the pennies per kWh range. (0.35 $/kWh). ---
**Author:** ![drachillix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/48db29/32.png) [@drachillix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drachillix)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-out-of-battery-power-for-an-electric-car/671687/69 "2013-10-22T18:35:03Z")
One of my techs drives a leaf and he regularly will stop at a nissan dealer mid day to plug in his car and grab a few miles while he walks across the street and gets lunch. The dealership chargers are free and load up about 14 miles of charge per hour. So stop, plug in, walk to fast food place across street, eat, back to car, plus 5-8 miles on charger. It is annoying sometimes when he is running low on juice toward the end of the day and cannot take another call because he would need an hour or two to charge. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/running-out-of-battery-power-for-an-electric-car/671687.md?page=3)