[QUOTE=Frylock] politically because it invites challenge by some of the very people his “blackness” is supposed to appeal to.*
[/QUOTE]
I keep hearing about this idea that blacks don’t really see “Obama” as one of them, but I don’t see the basis for this. Whites seem to be far more likely to talk about this man’s pedigree than any black person I know. A man like Obama calling himself black–when the world is pressuring him to call himself other than black-- is only going to earn respect from blacks, IMO. Precisely because socially it is more difficult to say “I’m black” than it to say “I’m mixed”.
This in essence is what it means when a racially ambiguous person says they identify as black in a political sense. Sometimes it has nothing to do with appearance or culture.
[QUOTE=John Mace]
Anyway, I think our friend **Dio **has deconstructed Rush’s usage beyond what is necessary. I would not attribute that level of intelligence to the guy. It’s most likely a joke to make him appear to not have the street cred to claim to understand the African-American experience in the same that most American Blacks do.
[/QUOTE]
Even if this is all Rush meant it’s still pointless because Obama has never claimed to have street cred. He’s actually been quite upfront about saying he hasn’t had all the same disadvantages.
I think it was a lame joke that Limbaugh would attempt to create significance for later if called on it. That its target was Obama was just a bonus to Limbaugh, I’d guess, when he was going for something catchy and punny that all his followers could then repeat until eternity.
In other words, I don’t think the term means much of anything yet. He hasn’t built it yet. He will. And then he’ll talk about how the term means X and how that was his whole purpose the whole time and blah blah blah.
[QUOTE=you with the face]
I keep hearing about this idea that blacks don’t really see “Obama” as one of them, but I don’t see the basis for this.
[/quote]
I don’t know why I saw fit to put Obama in scare quotes, but that sho is funny.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Even if this is all Rush meant it’s still pointless because Obama has never claimed to have street cred. He’s actually been quite upfront about saying he hasn’t had the same disadvantages.
[/QUOTE]
But he claims to be African-American, and that bothers some Blacks, although I can’t imagine it bothers very many. Link (you have to wait a few seconds for the commercial to play). I guess this was made an “issue” by Alan Keyes in the election that put Obama in the Senate. Keyes, it should be noted, is maybe one wrung up on the ladder of shame from Rush. But he’s not the only one to whom this matters, per the article, and per the GQ thread I mentioned before. **YWTF **can remember that thread, I’m sure. It got rather testy at times.
We had a thread a few weeks ago about black political commentators (conservatives, I think) were saying some of the same things Rush is. This is just going to be one of the conservative points against Obama: he’s not “really” black. In terms of this thread I think it’s ridiculous to focus on whether or not the technical definition of African-American includes him: the idea behind the comment is to imply that Obama is faking something about his background for political benefit, which he’s not.
[QUOTE=Captain Amazing]
I don’t think he was going for anything profound. Limbaugh tends to go for the cheap laugh, and he was just making the joke that if a black person is an “African-American”, somebody who’s half black is a “Halfrican-American”. So, when he heard that a biracial celebrity was endorsing a biracial politician, he figured he’d be cute.
In other words, what Pizzabrat said.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I think this too. He uses phrases like PMSNBC, and so forth, just cheap meaningless, fluffy crap, that, if taken the wrong way, could, maybe, possibly be inflammatory, it’s just for ratings, but it’s working, cause look, we’re here talking about it.
[QUOTE=John Mace]
But he claims to be African-American, and that bothers some Blacks, although I can’t imagine it bothers very many.
[/quote]
I don’t think Dio is saying that Rush has problem with Obama calling himself African-American. Rush is too dumb to get the distinction between black and A-A. Rather, the idea is that Rush is saying Obama is calling himself black when he’s not really black.
[QUOTE=Marley23]
We had a thread a few weeks ago about black political commentators (conservatives, I think) were saying some of the same things Rush is. This is just going to be one of the conservative points against Obama: he’s not “really” black. In terms of this thread I think it’s ridiculous to focus on whether or not the technical definition of African-American includes him: the idea behind the comment is to imply that Obama is faking something about his background for political benefit, which he’s not.
[/QUOTE]
Why is it “ridiculous” to try to explain what is happening? I’m not saying I agree with it, I’m just trying to say where I think Rush is coming from. I don’t know how much street cred" Rush has in among Blacks, but I doubt it’s much. So if he’s attempting to undermine Obama’s appeal to African-Americans, well.. it is to laugh.
[QUOTE=John Mace]
But he claims to be African-American, and that bothers some Blacks, although I can’t imagine it bothers very many. Link (you have to wait a few seconds for the commercial to play). I guess this was made an “issue” by Alan Keyes in the election that put Obama in the Senate. Keyes, it should be noted, is maybe one wrung up on the ladder of shame from Rush. But he’s not the only one to whom this matters, per the article, and per the GQ thread I mentioned before. **YWTF **can remember that thread, I’m sure. It got rather testy at times.
[/QUOTE]
When Obama has called himself “African-American” (which isn’t very often, from what i can find) he always qualifies it by saying that he means it literally. From the NYTimes piece, for instance:
The fact that he has been so consistently up-front and honest about his heritage and upbringing (and about what “African-American” means in his particular case) makes any claim at pretense rather hollow, IMO.
Is there anyone who doesn’t know that Obama’s father was an African immigrant? Is he trying to fool anybody. He talked about it even in the keynote speech at the '04 Democratic Convention that got him on the radar in the first place. He’s not exactly trying to pretend he’s Tupak or anything. The artifice suggested by Limbaugh and Keys just isn’t there.
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
When Obama has called himself “African-American” (which isn’t very often, from what i can find) he always qualifies it by saying that he means it literally. From the NYTimes piece, for instance:
[/quote]
So what? Do you give the same leeway to White South Africans who try to use the term when they come here? They are using it literally, too.
Well, you’ll have to take that up with those people who disagree. For me, I think the term African-American means what most people think it means-- a Black person living in the US.
John, like I said before, the whole A-A ethnic designation thing is not really relevant. Why do I say that? Because Rush also called Halle Berry a “Halfrican”. If Rush really meant to imply that Obama was trying to pander to A-As (as opposed to blacks), then Halle Berry would be a non sequitur.
And also, “Halfrican” implies that this is a racial issue not an ethnic one, because the term points to Obama’s racially mixed heritage. Obama’s mother was not an African-American and neither was his father, right? Rush is clearly using A-A to mean black. Therefore, Halfrican-American = biracial.
[QUOTE=John Mace]
So what? Do you give the same leeway to White South Africans who try to use the term when they come here? They are using it literally, too.
[/quote]
I’ve never heard a White South African say that except in a joking manner, but yes, they get the same leeway IF they explain what they mean by it the same way Obama does.
I don’t believe there are many of these. I believe there are people who want others to believe that, but not that many actually do.
Even when they tell you “I literally have an African heritage?”
Then we agree that any criticism in that regard is baseless. Obama is not trying to pas himself off as anything he is not.
[QUOTE=Frylock]
Am I the only white liberal who thinks that
-If it is true that Obama was raised in Hawaii by a white family with no general contact with black culture
-Then it is true that it is at least problematic to identify Obama as “black” in a culturally and politically meaningful way?
[/QUOTE]
The “If” clause of your argument is incorrect. As Diogenes mentioned, growing up he had considerable “general contact with black culture.” His first book, Dreams From My Father, is almost entirely an essay on growing up black in America, and in it he explains how he was considered and considered himself black from the time he returned from Indonesia to go to middle school in Hawaii. He hung out with the limited number of other blacks in his school, and socially travelled in black circles outside of school.
I would recommend his first book, whihc was written before his political career, as the story of a very interesting and introspective young man and how he struggled to fit in.
[QUOTE=John Mace]
Why is it “ridiculous” to try to explain what is happening? I’m not saying I agree with it, I’m just trying to say where I think Rush is coming from.
[/quote]
Because even if Rush is correct that Obama doesn’t fit some definitions of African-American, he’s wrong to say that Obama is somehow lying or pretending about what he is. If Obama had two black parents but came from money, for example, Rush would make the same implication. Or perhaps he’d just work with the fact that Obama went to Harvard.
Agreed. But it’s still malicious and dishonest, and I think that’s more important than any coincidentally-accurate literal readings of the word “halfrican.”
[QUOTE=Marley23]
Because even if Rush is correct that Obama doesn’t fit some definitions of African-American, he’s wrong to say that Obama is somehow lying or pretending about what he is. If Obama had two black parents but came from money, for example, Rush would make the same implication. Or perhaps he’d just work with the fact that Obama went to Harvard.
[/QUOTE]
It got rather testy at times.