# Rush Limbaugh: Rapist **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 13, 2016, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaugh-rapist/768445 "2016-10-13T18:59:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Eonwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eonwe/32/240_2.png) [@Eonwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eonwe)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaugh-rapist/768445/61 "2016-10-14T13:05:10Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > The woman sometimes explicitly refuses consent to sexual activity but never explicitly gives it. Well, duh. Because otherwise it would mean that our wives and girlfriends would be disgusting degenerate whores! And we can’t have that in our homes. Better to stray occasionally to the wrong side of the tracks to satisfy male needs than encourage our upstanding women to debase themselves in that way. **Starving Artist** : despite your insistence that “consent” is some mood-killing disruptor of sex invented by liberals for some nefarious purpose, most people most of the time (yourself included, I imagine) manage to have consensual sex _all the time_. It’s not that hard (heh). The most important part of this whole consent thing is simply to recognize that just because our partner(s) of the moment are not screaming bloody murder and calling the cops, it doesn’t mean that they consent. And as a compassionate human, one should _want_ to know that a sex partner is not just acquiescing because she’s afraid or confused. It’s not a ‘liberal’ issue. It’s not a ‘social justice warrior’ issue. It’s just about being a human who is concerned about not hurting another human. Not to be overly dramatic, but the fact that you (and others) have chosen to make this a political issue (silly pansy liberals foisting their consent on us) is jaw-droppingly awful. You’re so invested in being “anti-PC” or “anti-liberal” that when a no-brainer-positive focus on making sure your sex partners want to be there instead of just assuming it because you managed to get your dick in there without a physical altercation, you double down on it being a bad idea because people who vote Democrat came up with the idea. ---
**Author:** ![Pantastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3bc359/32.png) [@Pantastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pantastic)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaugh-rapist/768445/62 "2016-10-14T13:28:16Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Nope, they’re not wanting consent but demanding it. And insisting that it be obtained in the manner they proscribe or else it’s rape. :roll eyes: That is the perversion. If you have sex with someone who doesn’t actually consent to it, it’s rape. That’s the definition of the term, it’s amazing that someone would argue that it’s ‘perversion’ to insist that you get actual consent before fucking someone. “Oh, she was dressed slutty, so clearly she wanted it” “Well, she said no, but I decided that she really wanted it so I banged her anyway” “She knew she’d be out of a job if she complained so she didn’t say anything” are not remotely OK. It’s interesting to me how conservatives like to talk about putting people in jail for ‘rape and murder’, and Trump even specifically talked about Mexican immigrants being rapists at the start of his campaign, but turn around and virulently object to even calling rape ‘rape’. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaugh-rapist/768445/63 "2016-10-14T13:43:22Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > My mistake. I read the article and missed that they were quoting two different speeches. I though this was all part of one speech Limbaugh delivered this week. I pointed this out in my earlier response to you (post #24). > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Yeah, that’s a safe assumption when you read a conservative saying something appalling: a liberal is to blame. Well I was talking about the “out of context” part, but what you say is also correct as a general rule. Some people have a need to feel smugly superior, and they try to meet that by seeking out negative aspects of about their ideological opponents that they can contrast themselves to. (That’s the main purpose of threads like this one.) It’s natural that they would attempt to put the worst possible spin possible when they get the chance. > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Trying to make the flippin obvious clear, here are some forms that enthusiastic consent might take: > > -Initiating or returning a kiss. > -Grabbing an ass. > -Taking off some clothes in between kisses. > -Moaning “yes” or “Jesus that feels good” or something similar. > -Saying, “Hold up, lemme grab the condom.” > -Saying “Yes sir, you have permission to engage in sexual relations with me.” > > That last one isn’t the form it usually takes anywhere except in conservatives’ fevered imaginations. I believe you’re wrong about most or all of these things, legally. You need consent for sex itself, and initiating or returning a kiss or taking off clothes do not constitute consent for sex. (Not under the new “yes means yes” standards, nor under the old “no means no” standard.) What exactly does constitute consent for sex is sometimes ambiguous, which is why many people - including but not limited to conservatives - seize on the last example. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaugh-rapist/768445/64 "2016-10-14T13:52:57Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > I believe you’re wrong about most or all of these things, legally. You need consent for sex itself, and initiating or returning a kiss or taking off clothes do not constitute consent for sex. I’m pretty sure **Left Hand** wasn’t saying that if someone kisses you or takes off her clothing, that gives you permission to go ahead and do whatever you want with her. But rather, that cooperation implies consent, as long as the cooperation continues. Consent need not be verbal. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaugh-rapist/768445/65 "2016-10-14T13:53:08Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > How many of you ladies like it when a new date asks if it’s okay to kiss you? Properly asking is the only way any man I have ever seen for romantic purposes had ever been able to kiss me without receiving a swift knee to the groin in response. You need to hang out with some different women, Starving Artist. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaugh-rapist/768445/66 "2016-10-14T13:59:43Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > I’m pretty sure **Left Hand** wasn’t saying that if someone kisses you or takes off her clothing, that gives you permission to go ahead and do whatever you want with her. Then he shouldn’t have used these examples as contrasts with the last one that he was mocking, as that was about “sexual relations”. > [@](#): > > But rather, that cooperation implies consent, as long as the cooperation continues. Consent need not be verbal. Generally true. The issue is that “cooperation” and other non-verbal communication are generally more ambiguous than verbal communication. ---
**Author:** ![SenorBeef](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senorbeef/32/2220_2.png) [@SenorBeef](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SenorBeef)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaugh-rapist/768445/67 "2016-10-14T14:04:15Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > Properly asking is the only way any man I have ever seen for romantic purposes had ever been able to kiss me without receiving a swift knee to the groin in response. You need to hang out with some different women, Starving Artist. Oh good, we get the only crazier person on the board than Starving Artist on the rape issue to show up. Cue the fireworks. (I’m reasonably sure I would rather have sex with an angry, rabid badger than risk getting my genitals in the same room as you) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaugh-rapist/768445/68 "2016-10-14T14:06:13Z")
It’s very easy in my experience. Just say “is this okay?” and don’t proceed any further (to the next “step”) until a clear head-nod or “yes”. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaugh-rapist/768445/69 "2016-10-14T14:13:18Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > You need consent for sex itself, and initiating or returning a kiss or taking off clothes do not constitute consent for sex. (Not under the new “yes means yes” standards, nor under the old “no means no” standard.) What exactly does constitute consent for sex is sometimes ambiguous, which is why many people - including but not limited to conservatives - seize on the last example. Here’s what the Canadian Criminal Code says about consent > [@](#): > > 273.1 (1) Subject to subsection (2) and subsection 265(3), consent means, for the purposes of sections 271, 272 and 273, the voluntary agreement of the complainant to engage in the sexual activity in question. > > Marginal note:Where no consent obtained > > (2) No consent is obtained, for the purposes of sections 271, 272 and 273, where > > (a) the agreement is expressed by the words or conduct of a person other than the complainant; > (b) the complainant is incapable of consenting to the activity; > (c) the accused induces the complainant to engage in the activity by abusing a position of trust, power or authority; > (d) the complainant expresses, by words or conduct, a lack of agreement to engage in the activity; or > (e) the complainant, having consented to engage in sexual activity, expresses, by words or conduct, a lack of agreement to continue to engage in the activity. > > Marginal note:Subsection (2) not limiting > > (3) Nothing in subsection (2) shall be construed as limiting the circumstances in which no consent is obtained. > > 1992, c. 38, s. 1. > Marginal note:Where belief in consent not a defence > > 273.2 It is not a defence to a charge under section 271, 272 or 273 that the accused believed that the complainant consented to the activity that forms the subject-matter of the charge, where > > (a) the accused’s belief arose from the accused’s > (i) self-induced intoxication, or > (ii) recklessness or wilful blindness; or > > (b) the accused did not take reasonable steps, in the circumstances known to the accused at the time, to ascertain that the complainant was consenting. You’ll note the law is much more specific in listing those activities that fall outside of it’s framework of “voluntary agreement”. Just about everything **LHoD** listed would fall under “voluntary agreement” ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaugh-rapist/768445/70 "2016-10-14T14:39:23Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > It’s really a testament to how spoiled people in this country have become and how good we really have it Thanks, Obama! I may not agree with you about the “spoiled” part but I definitely concur that in many ways US society is better, in terms of acceptance and respect for individual rights and diversity, than it’s ever been before. (In other ways, of course, it’s **not** necessarily better, but there’s always room for improvement.) And people taking the issues of sexual assault/aggression and consent seriously is part of that positive trend. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaugh-rapist/768445/71 "2016-10-14T15:05:40Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Difficult to say. Certainly not possible based on the quote alone (I’m not familiar with the source, but it’s presumably some left-wing outfit taking his words out of context.) > > Listening to the sound bite, there’s a bit more ahead of the quoted portion. It appears from that that his point was going to be about the lack of moral standards and “anything goes” approach of the Left. And his point was not that there’s something wrong with insisting on consent, but that once you have consent everything else is OK, which is the part he seemed to be objecting to. > > Again, hard to say for sure, since they didn’t have anything after the quoted text, but based on what he said before that, that looked to be what he was leading up to. > > [This](https://drhurd.com/2016/10/09/the-1-reason-not-to-not-vote-for-donald-trump/) appears to be the Michael Hurd article he was talking about. It doesn’t mention anything about consent. What you describe is not any different from what anyone else is saying. The idea that “once you have consent” is enough is wrong. Consent can be withdrawn at any point. He’s saying only liberals care about that, but it’s not just liberals. The implication others mention is also there–that these are of the same level of impropriety. That seems to be an issue with you–not picking up on the implications of what is said, rather than just the literal meaning. It’s why you get into a lot of arguments here. He does not mention verbal consent, and the Trump quote he is talking about does not reference any sort of consent. It references “letting them do it,” which is not consent. That just means not actively resisting, not that the contact was wanted. It doesn’t have to be verbal. But you can’t steal a kiss. We were taught in drama class the non-verbal signals that happen with kisses, and there is consent involved. There are things you do that indicate your desire to kiss and then look and see if the other person also does them. It’s not something we tend to think about–it was only brought up in drama class because you wills sometimes have to fake it. Finally, there’s nothing wrong with using past information about a person or about patterns of argument to inform your interpretation of what someone is saying. Rush is now aware that people have understood him in this way. It is then on him to clarify that this is not what he means. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaugh-rapist/768445/72 "2016-10-14T15:10:29Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > What you describe is not any different from what anyone else is saying. The idea that “once you have consent” is enough is wrong. Consent can be withdrawn at any point. He’s saying only liberals care about that, but it’s not just liberals. > > The implication others mention is also there–that these are of the same level of impropriety. That seems to be an issue with you–not picking up on the implications of what is said, rather than just the literal meaning. It’s why you get into a lot of arguments here. > > He does not mention verbal consent, and the Trump quote he is talking about does not reference any sort of consent. It references “letting them do it,” which is not consent. That just means not actively resisting, not that the contact was wanted. > > It doesn’t have to be verbal. But you can’t steal a kiss. We were taught in drama class the non-verbal signals that happen with kisses, and there is consent involved. There are things you do that indicate your desire to kiss and then look and see if the other person also does them. It’s not something we tend to think about–it was only brought up in drama class because you wills sometimes have to fake it. > > Finally, there’s nothing wrong with using past information about a person or about patterns of argument to inform your interpretation of what someone is saying. Rush is now aware that people have understood him in this way. It is then on him to clarify that this is not what he means. Excellent lecture Sir. We thank you as always. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaugh-rapist/768445/73 "2016-10-14T16:22:50Z")
This morning while I was laying in bed my husband started rubbing my arm on his way out the door to work. My response was something like, “_moan_… _Moan_… _Moan_… You’re the greatest person ever.” BAM! Consent. Seriously I have to wonder what kind of sex people are having that the idea of verifying your partner is into whatever you’re doing is such a difficult concept. Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaugh-rapist/768445/74 "2016-10-14T16:37:17Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > This morning while I was laying in bed my husband started rubbing my arm on his way out the door to work. My response was something like, “_moan_… _Moan_… _Moan_… You’re the greatest person ever.” BAM! Consent. Seriously I have to wonder what kind of sex people are having that the idea of verifying your partner is into whatever you’re doing is such a difficult concept. It’s trivial to imagine all sorts of scenarios along the lines of what you describe happens, and this will generally be what actually happens. But I don’t believe that there are many people for whom something as explicit as what you describe happens every time and every step of the way. The reason the vast majority of people don’t get accused of sexual assault is not because they fit the legal definition of consent every time. It’s because they’re guessing right, even in the absence of explicit consent. In particular, people in long term relationships or who are married have little to worry about – they will be much better attuned to their partners’ subtle messages, and their partners are less inclined to accuse them in any event, for a variety of reasons. The people at risk are the ones who are part of the casual sex hookup culture, who are more likely to find themselves in situations where they misinterpret subtle signs from unwilling (including retroactively unwilling) partners. ---
**Author:** ![raventhief](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/raventhief/32/4_2.png) [@raventhief](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raventhief)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaugh-rapist/768445/75 "2016-10-14T16:41:50Z")
Raping an unconscious woman is such a astonishingly rare occurrence that we can just ignore it? Really? A woman who is too drunk to resist or say no is not giving consent. Maybe you should read the statement written by Brock Turner’s victim. Consent isn’t a difficult concept. “Allowing something to happen” is not consent. Saying nothing and freezing up is not consent. “Weakly” saying no is definitely not giving consent. Enthusiastically responding and participating in the process \*is \*consent. Saying “yes” is consent. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaugh-rapist/768445/76 "2016-10-14T16:42:26Z")
So if it takes that much guesswork not to rape someone does that mean you’re arguing for explicit verbal consent? Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaugh-rapist/768445/77 "2016-10-14T16:46:42Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > So if it takes that much guesswork not to rape someone does that mean you’re arguing for explicit verbal consent? That argument would support either “explicit verbal consent” or “no means no”. The argument is essentially that requiring affirmative consent but relying on non-verbal communication will frequently fall short (most commonly in precisely the situations that are the focus of these rules). ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaugh-rapist/768445/78 "2016-10-14T16:53:51Z")
Basically what it comes down to is that people operate by different standards of what is meant by “consent.” I believe my standard diminishes the chances of someone having sex with an unwilling partner. One of the key things we teach in prevention ed is that consent is a continuous process, not a one time event. We do this because we want to prevent people from being raped. It is my understanding that most people who rape have such distorted concepts of what constitutes consent that they do not view themselves as rapists. We need to raise the bar. What legally constitutes consent is certainly a valid consideration, but my personal standard is “What reduces the odds that someone will feel powerless in a sexual situation?” Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaugh-rapist/768445/79 "2016-10-14T17:01:15Z")
Hard to know how that shakes out. On the one hand, a lot of clueless guys are going to remain clueless. And conversely, there may be women who feel less compelled to be explicit by virtue of the “yes means yes” standard, which would create even more of these ambiguous situations. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [October 14, 2016, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaugh-rapist/768445/80 "2016-10-14T17:34:45Z")
Then perhaps one part of this education might be teaching women how to feel comfortable voicing their non-consent. We (women) are so culturally conditioned to be pleasant, not to make waves, to avoid conflict, or even to internalize blame for our own sexual assault, that we DON’T speak up for fear of the repercussions. As I said in the other thread on sexual assault, I froze up completely during my abuse out of sheer terror. As much as we need to change the standard of consent, we also need to teach women that is okay to say no, that nobody is entitled to our bodies, whether they bought us a drink or dinner or are a really good teacher, father, etc. In my view preparing girls and women for those situations will achieve the same end, and educating both genders in their own way would be powerful indeed. Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaugh-rapist/768445.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaugh-rapist/768445.md?page=5)