Rush Limbaugh: Rapist

The BBQ Pit
41

For the record, I strongly disapprove of mocking or derogating a man for taking consent seriously.

[QUOTE=Starving Artist]

My take is that Limbaugh feels that not saying no = consent.

[/quote]

Against your “take” we can place Limbaugh’s own actual words: “‘no’ means ‘yes’ if you know how to spot it”.

In other words, whether or not Limbaugh feels that not saying no is equivalent to consent, he seems to be endorsing the view that under some hypothetical “spottable” circumstances, saying no is also equivalent to consent.

[QUOTE=Starving Artist]
Which frankly is pretty much the way it’s always been, at least during my lifetime. The guy tries for what he can get and the girl sets the limits by saying no when she doesn’t want things to go any further…unless of course she does, in which case she never says no and things go all the way. But at no point does she ever say, “Yes, please screw me!”
[/quote]

:dubious: IIRC, you’re sixty- or seventy-something. I’m fifty-two, so a fair bit of our adult lifetimes overlap. I think your expectation that women never voluntarily offer explicit consent to sexual activity is, at best, somewhat outdated.

[QUOTE=Starving Artist]
So be honest, how many of you have ever had sex with someone where you either verbally asked or were asked for permission before doing the deed? Or asked or were asked for permission every step of the way - dress or jeans removal, bra removal, panty removal, male disrobement, etc., etc., etc.? It’s silly, and that’s what Limbaugh is lampooning, in my opinion. And rightfully so, also in my opinion.
[/QUOTE]

:rolleyes: This is quite illuminating about the mindset of a certain perspective on heterosexual sex. In this view, apparently, the woman is some kind of passive dispenser of sexual gratification, from which the man “tries for what he can get” until and unless the dispenser for some reason shuts off. The woman sometimes explicitly refuses consent to sexual activity but never explicitly gives it.

Consequently, the only alternative to the man just taking whatever he can get out of the sex dispenser is the man explicitly asking for every additional sex item he wants dispensed. Like watching a movie online and having to re-type your password every five seconds to be able to see the next scene, as opposed to starting the movie and watching it all the way through unless the transmission cuts off.

If this is what these people really believe to be the way sex works, I’m not sure it’s possible to explain to them any other understanding of consent.

42

You say passive dispenser of sex, I say a respectful approach in which the power of the woman to determine what happens is acknowledged and honored by the man. This relieves the woman of the awkward, clumsy and potentially mood-killing granting of permission and the man of the awkward, clumsy and potentially mood-killing necessity of stopping in the middle of everything and asking “Pardon, my dear, but is it alright if I screw you now?”, lol!

All this is unnecessary if politics is left out of it. Just let things progress naturally and men and women will find the way that works best for them, which will is most likely what’s already been working for them all along. Given that facts are alleged to have a liberal bias, I’m continually struck by the liberal propensity to keep trying to pound square pegs into round holes in an effort to make the world conform to their idea of how it ought to be.

Having said that, I forgot to take into account Limbaugh’s “no means yes” comment. Having never had the experience of feeling like I could get a read on a woman playing such games, I can’t comment from experience what all is involved or how “no means yes” differs from “no means no”. My guess, however, would be that in the case where no means yes, no is proclaimed weakly and unconvincingly and maybe with a bit of playful giggling or laughter thrown in for good measure. But admittedly this is speculation. Certainly if a woman gets angry enough and insistent enough, the guy will get the idea even if he’s by and large a “no means yes” kind of guy. Unless a guy is really a jerk and borderline or actual rapist, he will certainly stop at this point if he hasn’t already. Most guys are hardwired to want to please women, and driving them to the point where they get pissed off at you and yell at you to leave them alone is not something most guys want to experience.

It’s true that I’m considerably older than both you and most of the dating cohort these days, but I’ve been fortunate enough to have spent quite a bit of time in the company of young women both at work and socially over the decades, up to and including now, and I’ve been surprised at how once outside the liberal social justice bubble, girls and young women aren’t all that different from the way they were decades ago in what they expect and/or appreciate in men, and in the average number of partners they’ve had for their relative age.

43

:rolleyes: Starving Artist expounding his views on hypothesized sexual activity always goes well. As I said, if your view of a woman’s consent to sex reduces it to “awkward, clumsy and potentially mood-killing granting of permission”, you have my sympathy but I think it’s beyond elucidation.

44

I feel like Starving Artist must be a shill for Big Rape the way he always rushes in to defend anything remotely rapey. I wonder what that kind of gig pays. What’s the price on dignity and humanity?

45

And I feel like you must be a moron because I haven’t said anything about rape, Big or otherwise.

Good grief! What the hell is it with you people?

46

You rush to the defense of a guy who mocked the idea that consent is somehow different than other (supposed) immoral sexual behavior like sex out of wedlock or pretty much anything that doesn’t conform to the most vanilla sex possible. You then try to justify his “no means yes” bullshit attitude towards consent. He fucking mockingly said “here come the rape police!” at the idea that someone had sex with someone else without consent. Yes, that’s what rape is. It’s actually just the regular police we use for that.

How many times do you need to rush in to defend anything rapey before we call it a pattern?

47

:smack: No, rape is forcing someone to have sex against their will! I cannot believe I have to actually say that out loud to a fucking adult!

But aside from that, my contention is that for a woman to allow sex to proceed without complaint or any attempt to stop it is consent, especially when the woman is enthusiastically or at least physically participating in the lead up, as is often the case.

And actually the fact this even has to be contended is evidence of how ridiculous things have gotten on the left. Sex has been taking place this way between silently consenting adults since time immemorial.

And speaking of how ridiculous things have gotten on the left, this is the very reason I get involved in so many sex-as-problem threads: it’s because they’re so utterly ridiculous and I want to try to do my part to keep them from gaining traction.

But I have to confess my resolve is being tested. It’s true. I’m actually beginning to feel the need for a safe space of my own to shield me from exposure to the ever-increasing lunacy coming out of the left every day.

More and more I find myself wondering, do you people get out of bed every day and ask yourself before you leave the house or dorm room or wherever you happen to be cloistered, “What bit of normal, everyday behavior is going on these days that I can ridiculously pervert into something its not and has never been in order to get the the country’s gullible and insatiable Social Justice Warriors all het up over today? It makes me feel so goood to be able to play such an important role in saving humanity from itself. I’m so fucking wonderful/caring/compassionate/fair/indomitable I can hardly fucking stand it!”

It’s really a testament to how spoiled people in this country have become and how good we really have it that our SJWs have to resort to expending so much time and energy seeking to invent outrage from so much inconsequential minutiae.

Criminey!

48

And, those of us with >1 functioning brain cell can’t believe you and your rapist friends are still spouting such crap.

OK - she’s in a coma - Party Time!

Asshole!

49

You’re off in your own little fantasy world. Rush isn’t talking about needing to specifically verbalize every escalating point. He’s saying men need to know when no means yes. He’s talking about ignoring explicit verbal refusals and going ahead anyway because undoubtedly they want it anyway.

And the guy is equating “immoral” sexual behavior like anything besides a married woman laying back and thinking of England as being the same as non-consensual sex, and the left is a bunch of hypocrites if you say having sex with your girlfriend (fornicators!!!) is okay but raping some random girl isn’t.

Refresh my memory - you’re the guy who posted like 600 times defending the child rapist and enablers at Penn State, right? Fucking SJWs won that one too. I remember the good old days when you raped kids no one made a big fuss.

If you’re calling me an SJW, that’s really funny. I’m pretty anti-SJW, and I actually agree with this sentiment - SJWs as a group are people who have such easy, priviledged lives that they need to seek out victimhood recreationally and it’s pathetic and comical.

But just because there are SJWs doesn’t mean that everyone gets off the hook for being a fucking vile cretin, like Rush is being here. You’ve basically decided that if SJWs are against it, then it’s the right thing, even if it’s just an obvious case of one guy defending rapey behavior.

Keep on thinking you’re some hero for rushing in to defend rapists and defend people that mock the idea that wanting consent is some sort of sexual perversion equivelant to other horrible sexual perversions like healthy sex lives outside of marriage. Ignore the fact that no one else takes your side on this, even people who are also right-leaning. No, you are the lone hero in the world who can see it how it is, and everyone else is wrong on this one.

50

Yeah, because banging comatose women in hospitals is such a commonplace occurrence. Sorry, how could I possibly have overlooked such an important and influential societal problem.

51

Conservatives should be encouraged to talk about rape until everyone understands what they mean. If it’s not a legitimate discussion the body politic has a way of shutting that whole thing down.

52

Absolutely not.

Sorry, never have, never will.

Nope, they’re not wanting consent but demanding it. And insisting that it be obtained in the manner they proscribe or else it’s rape. :roll eyes: That is the perversion.

People have been having sex without verbal approval for eons now. It’s hardly the place for modern day SJWs and self-appointed defenders of femininity to decide all of a sudden that women are being raped barring verbal consent and to insist that men always obtain it upon pain of their being rapists otherwise. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, such nonsense is ridiculous, and it’s way past time people started standing up to this idiocy and telling these people to go pound sand.

And as an aside to usedtobe, it’s always been illegal to rape comatose women. So in the once-in-a-million case where it happens then the offender should be prosecuted. Why do you think the issue of coma rape is in any way germane to anything I’ve said, which has been almost solely focused on the desirability of letting people get themselves into bed without any of our apparently endless number of societal prescriptivists dictating to them how they’re to properly, legally, morally and sufficiently non-sexistly navigate themselves there.

53

Yeah. How dare those people demand consent. What crazy world are we living in.:dubious:

54

“and at that moment a rooster began to crow.”

55

Trying to make the flippin obvious clear, here are some forms that enthusiastic consent might take:

-Initiating or returning a kiss.
-Grabbing an ass.
-Taking off some clothes in between kisses.
-Moaning “yes” or “Jesus that feels good” or something similar.
-Saying, “Hold up, lemme grab the condom.”
-Saying “Yes sir, you have permission to engage in sexual relations with me.”

That last one isn’t the form it usually takes anywhere except in conservatives’ fevered imaginations.

Enthusiastic consent is to be distinguished from
-Freezing up, staring wide-eyed, and not saying “no” as you continue to paw at her.

56

Yeah, I’ve never heard that consent has to be verbal, just explicit. The absence of “no” is not enough, because sometimes women get too scared to say no. But that is not the same thing as suggesting you have to verbally ask for permission every step of the way. It means you have to listen to not only what your partner is saying but also the nonverbal cues line reciprocating your attention. If they do say no, even with a giggle, then you back the hell off. Women who play games like that are part of the problem. If you stop when they say no, they’ll get the picture damned fast.

Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk

57

Women who are raped sometimes don’t physically resist, out of terror or shock. That doesn’t mean it’s not rape.

Rush is saying that it’s not rape as long as they don’t resist. Even if they say “no”, as long as the man interprets the “no” as “yes” Rush says it’s okay to proceed.

That’s disgusting. Making sure your partner consents doesn’t kill the mood, unless the mood you want is a rapey mood. Making sure can mean going very slowly and making sure they’re physically responding positively, asking “are you okay with this?”, etc. – it doesn’t have to be a strict “do you consent to intercourse?”. Silence and lack of resistance is not consent. Just laying there is not consent. Consent must be verified, unless you’re okay with the chance that you might be raping an unwilling but terrified/shocked partner.

Rush is okay with it, by his words. By your words, Starving Artist, you’re okay with it too. You shouldn’t be.

58

Starving doesn’t believe a taller grown man can penetrate a shorter boy while standing, even when told by someone (me) that that is exactly the scenario of one of their own rapes as a kid - he lives in his own world when it comes to rape, this is just another facet of that.

59

Sorry to hear that, and I remember that conversation. Starving Artist, you have a blind spot about rape if you can’t accept the report of a rape victim as factual just because it clashes with your preconceived (but not experience-based) notions. Rape victims understand rape much, much better than you do. This should be obvious, but I don’t think you get it.

60

Oh, come on, he proved it with a paper towel tube. How could your own personal experience trump that?

FWIW, I have PTSD and a very difficult time verbalizing “no” when I’m in a sexual situation I’m uncomfortable with. I freeze up and mentally retreat, I lay there, I stiffen up. In my entire 14 year relationship with Sr. Weasel, not once - not one time - has my husband mistaken my silence for consent. He knows every time when I am uncomfortable, even without saying a damned word. He stops. It’s not that hard. Some people act like we’re establishing some impossible standard by expecting our partners to pay attention to our nonverbal cues. It’s not that hard.