# Rush Limbaugh's Fall From Grace.... **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 16, 2003, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaughs-fall-from-grace/207755 "2003-10-16T08:10:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Spoke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a88e57/32.png) [@Spoke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoke)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaughs-fall-from-grace/207755/81 "2003-10-18T16:01:15Z")
Hang on… Rush is telling his maid he needs the pills for **_ear_ pain**? So if he’s been having _back_ problems, why didn’t he just tell the maid that? Why go to the ear pain excuse? Unless of course the back pain is a _newly-minted_ cover story… Sounds more and more like recreational drug use to this suspicious observer. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaughs-fall-from-grace/207755/82 "2003-10-18T17:39:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by chorpler \* > **I’m not surprised that Rush is being thought of as a hypocrite – given his outspoken views on taking personal responsibility and making individual choices and willpower and the like, it does seem somewhat hypocritical for him to have chosen not to stop using opioids once his pain was gone. But personally, even though I don’t agree with much of what Rush says, I don’t think of his behavior here as hypocritical, really, because I think that opioid addiction is a medical condition, not a moral failing – I believe there is something malfunctioning in the brains of those who become addicts, perhaps a defect in the endorphin system, or some form of depression, or something else entirely. Whatever it is, I don’t really blame addicts for becoming addicts. I don’t think addiction is an excuse for bad behavior – i.e., I don’t think addiction is an excuse for stealing from your family, or for hurting somebody in a car accident, or whatever – but I don’t blame people for becoming addicted to something.** chorpler, you’ve got it backwards. Rush isn’t a hypocrite for getting addicted. He’s a hypocrite for getting addicted and then not insisting that he be locked in jail just as he says addicts should be. Even if he never said anything about drugs after becoming addicting his silence was, er, deafening. Instead, he “goes into rehab”. Well, that’s good, bully for him, now why the hell does he think poor folks should be caged like animals while he goes to rehab? That’s hypocrisy. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaughs-fall-from-grace/207755/83 "2003-10-18T17:46:36Z")
I am a recovering drug addict. My addiction is/was to prescription pain pills, which, by the way, are astonishingly easy to get legitimately. I’m more than willing to cut the guy some slack, even though I despise his politics. There is a lot of truth to the “walk a mile in his shoes” saying and people who are not addicts cannot really, IMHO, relate to addiction. Once the addiction is established, how and why a person became addicted is immaterial. Only the addiction is real. Bitter experience, here. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2003, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaughs-fall-from-grace/207755/84 "2003-10-18T18:09:50Z")
Unfortunately, **LouisB** , prescription pain pills seem to be a lot easier to get by addicts than by people who actually need them, although I don’t know about legitimately, unless the addict has a really really understanding doctor. Many chronic pain patients are undertreated or not treated at all, which is why many of them end up committing suicide or going to methadone clinics. And **Evil Captor** , I agree, that is hypocritical. In fact, if he has said that addicts should be jailed, I’d say it was hypocritical if he didn’t then volunteer to be jailed because of his addiction. But my standard may be a bit excessive in that regard, and I haven’t actually heard him say that he shouldn’t go to jail. Of course, I don’t believe he should go to jail for being an addict and obtaining his opioids from wherever he could, but I don’t believe anybody else should either. I really hope he gains some understanding about other drug “criminals” from this experience – perhaps the understanding that the answer to “Is being arrested and going to jail really the best thing for a drug addict?” is almost invariably “no.” ---
**Author:** ![ExecutiveJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a6a055/32.png) [@ExecutiveJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExecutiveJesus)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2003, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaughs-fall-from-grace/207755/85 "2003-10-20T23:57:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by lissener \* > \*\*The far right is notorious for overlooking flaws in its heroes; flaws are for the enemy. He’ll be back. It’ll give them a chance to feel like liberals. \*\* Is this not the case for anyone’s hero? ---
**Author:** ![E72521](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dbc845/32.png) [@E72521](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E72521)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaughs-fall-from-grace/207755/86 "2003-10-21T02:11:25Z")
It is not Rush’s fault that he had a “bad back”. It is not Rush’s fault that his orthopedic surgeon botched his back surgery, leaving poor Rush in pain. It is not Rush’s fault that the prescribing physician and pharmacist didn’t explain what can happen with hillbilly heroin. It is not Rush’s fault that his housekeeper was able to supply him with vast quantities of oxycontin illegally. It is not Rush’s fault that buying prescription drugs on the black market is illegal and supports terrorism. Rush is the victim. Its not like the dude grew up in a crack house and became an addict because of his environment–those people belong in jail. Not Rush. Its not his fault. But Rush is strong and proud. He will take respons–oh yeah, I forgot. Its not his fault. ---
**Author:** ![ExecutiveJesus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a6a055/32.png) [@ExecutiveJesus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ExecutiveJesus)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2003, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaughs-fall-from-grace/207755/87 "2003-10-21T02:42:57Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by E72521 \* > \*\*It is not Rush’s fault that he had a “bad back”. It is not Rush’s fault that his orthopedic surgeon botched his back surgery, leaving poor Rush in pain. It is not Rush’s fault that the prescribing physician and pharmacist didn’t explain what can happen with hillbilly heroin. It is not Rush’s fault that his housekeeper was able to supply him with vast quantities of oxycontin illegally. It is not Rush’s fault that buying prescription drugs on the black market is illegal and supports terrorism. Rush is the victim. Its not like the dude grew up in a crack house and became an addict because of his environment–those people belong in jail. Not Rush. Its not his fault. But Rush is strong and proud. He will take respons–oh yeah, I forgot. Its not his fault. \*\* Hmmm… What I read was a complete acceptance of responsiblity for his drug addiction. His genious has already prempted you. 😜 ---
**Author:** ![coleridge78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@coleridge78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coleridge78)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaughs-fall-from-grace/207755/88 "2003-10-22T16:33:26Z")
As a one-time Rush fan who grew out of it around the first time I kissed a girl, I will say: he rarely lies outright. He knows people are watching his every move. However, like any other political blowhard, he twists facts (especially numbers) any way he can to back up his preconceived ideas. The aim is obvious, and was encapsulated by Debaser: > [@](#): > > Make sure it’s not just an opinion that you don’t like. Come up with something factual that he said that is a lie. Make sure it is bald-faced, and not just a few, I hasten to add. Fortunately for black/white demagogues of all stripes, the real world has a lot of gray. While they want the ideology to be simple, they like their evidence to be malleable or mythic. When someone calls you on an absurdity, you can dismiss your underlying intellectual dishonesty by saying “we have different opinions”. For a few examples of the twists, please see [http://www.spinsanity.org/topics/#Limbaugh](http://www.spinsanity.org/topics/#Limbaugh) and note that their lead story right now (two of them, even!) are devoted to taking apart the fallacies in Michael Moore’s newest book. They are as close as you can get to a non-partisan media watchdog. As for the subject at hand (speaking as an addict from a large family of them): the distinction that people like Scylla are trying to draw may or may not be an important one. Personally, I’d say that very few people start on the road to addiction simply because they thought the high would be “fun”. People who are just looking for a fun high stick to the relative safety of weed, shrooms, and the like (in most cases). Those who become serious addicts to serious drugs are nearly always self-medicating, rendering the distinction rather less straightforward. Here’s the crux of the issue: that distinction is not really relevant here at all. Rush was not just some poor schmo who was on painkillers, got addicted, and is getting clean. Even if the “soldier’s disease” wasn’t a myth, he’s hardly a soldier. He wasn’t shot. He didn’t break both his legs in a car wreck. He didn’t need that “first shot of morphine,” he wanted it. No decent doctor prescribes a heavily addictive narcotic like Oxycontin for back pain without trying other things first. We’re talking Dr Nick territory here, for you Simpsons fans who will get the reference. Since there has been no mention of therapies, surgeries, or anything else (to the best of my knowledge) it’s obvious to me that Rush went out looking for pills, looking for the quick fix–how very American of him. He went looking for them (went doctor-shopping, as the phrase goes–or maybe his private doc was willing to oblige, who knows), and got what he wanted. And once it got out of control and he failed at rehab, he dangerously involved others, who were in a subordinate position, in his supply chain. Despicable. If Rush is going to try to excuse himself because it’s an addiction which grew out of a medical issue, then he better be prepared to release anyone who’s locked up for using drugs as self-medication. The only difference between he and they is that many of them have the decency not to involve their maids, or get hooked up by doctors who sully the rest of the profession, or tell twenty million people a day to be scared of, hate, and mock those of different opinions and circumstances rather than engaging in intelligent discussion. ---
**Author:** ![coleridge78](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@coleridge78](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coleridge78)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2003, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaughs-fall-from-grace/207755/89 "2003-10-22T16:37:42Z")
I’ve seen that he did have surgery, so strike that from my post, at least until its established that his first use of the pills was after or before the surgery. My point remains largely the same. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaughs-fall-from-grace/207755/90 "2003-10-23T01:43:39Z")
First, a few doses of reality: 1. In Florida, we have been throwing the book at people who acquire oxycontin illegally. This was based in part on all the deaths assocaited with illicit use. 2. How do I know this? I defended, briefly, someone charged with forging a prescription for oxycontin. He was charged with THREE felonies, for _attempting_ to acquire the drug _once_. 3. Rush WAS NOT using these drugs for back pain. GROW UP, the quantities of opiates he was using would shock the craziest club kid with a pacifier in his mouth. 4. Nobody on the right even sees the rank hypocrisy in not pushing to throw the book at him. To take a page from a Grisham novel, sort of, “now imagine Rush is black and poor.” 5. But, thanks, Rush. You’ve done more to end the senseless war on drugs than NORMAL has in ten years. [Hypocritical junkie loser. The only way out, Rush, is to become a libertarian.]([http://www.lp.org/press/archive.php?function=view&record=652](http://www.lp.org/press/archive.php?function=view&record=652)) Then, at least, you can remain fiscally conservative without being a rank hypocrite of the worst kind – someone who doesn’t mind serious life-altering punishment for people just like himself, but not himself. ---
**Author:** ![chorpler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chorpler/32/2888_2.png) [@chorpler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chorpler)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaughs-fall-from-grace/207755/91 "2003-10-23T02:29:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Beagle \* > \*\*First, a few doses of reality: > > … 3) Rush WAS NOT using these drugs for back pain. GROW UP, the quantities of opiates he was using would shock the craziest club kid with a pacifier in his mouth. …\*\* I also don’t really believe he was using them for back pain, but it’s not entirely impossible. Even though they don’t generally become psychologically addicted, people using opioids legitimately for chronic pain still tend to build up a tolerance to them, so as time goes on they can end up using truly astounding quantities of narcotic painkillers. One of the founders of one of the chronic pain support groups I used to belong to was on a daily dose of 700mg of morphine, seventy times the usual dose of 10mg. One of his friends was on 2500mg daily, and another friend of his was on 6000mg daily. I personally met the founder (Mr. 700mg) and his 6000mg friend, and with their primary care physicians and pain-control specialists, and these were people with seriously disabling physical pain caused by, respectively, ankylosing spondilitis and cancer/lupus. They weren’t faking it to get high. True, their doses doesn’t really hold a candle to the doses some of the addicts I’ve talked to were on (like \>15000mg morphine per day), but even so, it does show that a high dose alone is not universally an indicator of addiction rather than legitimate opioid use. But as I said … it seems extremely unlikely to me that Rush’s is a case of legitimate use. ---
**Author:** ![Beagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/85f322/32.png) [@Beagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beagle)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaughs-fall-from-grace/207755/92 "2003-10-23T02:44:52Z")
I’m not denying he had back pain. But, Rush is the worst opiate junkie I’ve ever heard of that hadn’t ODed, or died. In fact, most opiate addicts started out with pain of some kind. Strangely, unless you are Rush, using this as an excuse to buy it on the street in heroic quantities is not very useful in court, or in the court of public opinion. It might get you into drug diversion or treatment. To be fair, other junkies do get diverted into treatment sometimes. BUT, not without being arrested, charged, and sent in front of a judge. If he really “took personal responsibility” he would have sought help for his addiction before he became a cross between Keith Richards, Elvis, and G. Gordon Liddy. Oh, and he would have followed through and not relapsed. Sure, that’s not easy. But, I’m not the one that is the hypocrite. ---
**Author:** ![Bouncer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9d8465/32.png) [@Bouncer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bouncer)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaughs-fall-from-grace/207755/93 "2003-10-23T03:22:43Z")
My view… Rush took delight in portraying any non-neoconservative group as left over hippies and counter-culture pot/shroom/whatever heads, and treated them and anyone with drug dependency as one and the same. He did so in a continually derisive and belittling manner, and held himself and neoconservatism up as the paragon of moral decency fighting to retake the country and government from the “long-haired, maggot-infested, dope-smoking FM types” infesting the nations capitol … The neocons must be having a collective heart attack. On the one hand, they can either continue the rhetoric of bashing people with dependency issues as being weak, soft, unwilling to face their problems, not man enough, not woman enough, not TOUGH enough and unable to just get over it. In which case they just lost their public figurehead/emperor who held it all together for them and kept them from splintering into factions, since Ann Coulter turns even a lot of Republicans off and the other mouth pieces do as well. Rush was “folksy” and yet savvy enough to bridge that gap and bring the real right wingers closer to the great party middle and the more liberal (or moderate as they call themselves) republicans. This is what made him so powerful. An average DAILY audience of 14 to 20 million people powerful. On the other hand, the party can suddenly get all concerned about how stress and physical injuries can make even the best people slip and fall cause we’re all only human after all …and try out the compassionate conservative dog and pony show. A show which never really fit them to begin with, and which will be seen as what it is by the great middle class, namely, desperate damage control. The REAL problem for the neocons is, they can’t even TRY to do the latter without giving up the former, and the former was powerful medicine that sounded good to repeat often. If they do try it though, they suddenly reveal themselves as people engaging in an about face on their beliefs since about 93’. “Lock the drug infested maggots up” doesn’t have quite the same ring when it’s your own favorite son popping Oxycotins like tic-tacs. Deep down inside, they know it. They have a rather unique crisis of conscience on their hands. Zero tolerance, has come home to kick them in the junk. It’s a pretty big damn deal politically… because he (and by extension anyone he represents, like the neocons) is now open to charges of being hypocritical. Folks outside his radio listening range may not understand how big he is. Here’s a few numbers to show his influence: Limbaugh audience in mid-1990s estimated at 20 million listeners a week on 680 radio stations across country -recent drop to 14.5 million (decline of “Rush Rooms” where viewers listened together at restaurants) -books have sold 7.5 million copies -$25,000-$50,000 for lectures -monthly newsletter has 170,000 subscribers (example of cross-promotion) [http://www.insidepolitics.org/ps111/riseofTV.html](http://www.insidepolitics.org/ps111/riseofTV.html) And understand that his listener base is mostly white, mostly college educated, and politically active. These ARE people who vote… between 14 and 20 MILLION of them. Like him or hate him, he’s the neocons/Republican party poster boy behind GW Bush. As for his comeback… I am … dubious. It’s going to be hard to find any conservative politician who wants to stand near him, and the Republican party is not known for it’s forgiving neture when it comes to “moral” embarassment of this type, especially when it goes public like this. Further, the States Attorney is going to be very hard pressed NOT to press charges. They, all the way up to the Governor, will catch a shitstorm of criticism if he gets any kind of a pass, and they know that. It gives easy ammo to their opposition. Down the road, their strategists have to know (and be reporting to their bosses) that the Democrat strategists are already writing campaign ads, and finding old pictures and doing everything they can to put the “tainted” man next to the Republican candidates. They’re going to have to engage in damage control, and that means repudiating Rush three times before the cock crows. Personally, I hope he gets the help he needs. Same as I do with any addict. I have a feeling you are going to see a waning of his power and prestige, and a lot less public association between him and the party. This not going to destroy the republican party of course, but it will probably weaken it somewhat since their number one cheerleader is no longer a virgin, and just doesn’t have the same bounce in his bosom any more. Combined with the factionalization you are likely to see without his overpowering presence keeping everyone in the same tent, and Bush’s being less than the ideal candidate and the foreign policy issues and weak economy… Well… Wesley Clark is looking stronger by the minute. And that, in my view, is the real effect his addiction has had on the republicans. Regards, -Bouncer- ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaughs-fall-from-grace/207755/94 "2003-10-23T08:05:54Z")
Excellent post Bouncer! It is almost surreal. Mr. Limbaugh who recently signed a contract worth over a quarter of a **billion** dollars sends his maid who was making $270.00 per week to break the law for him. We are all praying for him. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaughs-fall-from-grace/207755/95 "2003-10-23T17:51:21Z")
In “lies and the Lying…”, Al Franken said Rush beath the draft with a pilonidal cyst, not a trick knee as Limbaugh maintains. Rush says he had spinal surgery that went bad. I suspect he had the pilonidal cyst removed. As a Hospital Corpsman at Quantico Naval Hosp in '53, I saw a few post op pilonidal cyst patients. The wounds were just below the crack in the ass, almost perfectly circular, - about a silver dollar in diameter - and maybe 1/2" deep at the center. These are ugly sumbitches, raw, gaping, and oh so painful looking. We had to pack 'em with gauze treated with antibiotic on one day, remove it and repack with fresh gauze the next. The patients had to lie on their stomachs all the time just about. It was months before these guys were returned to duty. So. I despise Rush Limbaugh as much as anyone, but I will have to concede that if he did have that operation, he probably suffered a lot, which may have contributed significantly to his addiction. Maybe some doper MDs might chime in on this matter. At any rate, I hope we can all spare a little bit of empathy for him. ---
**Author:** ![BarnOwl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e95f7d/32.png) [@BarnOwl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BarnOwl)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2003, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaughs-fall-from-grace/207755/96 "2003-10-23T18:06:10Z")
Oops. I forgot one thing. There’s some question here about how Rush could play golf with that “bad back” of his. Well, IIRC, once you’ve healed from pilonidal cyst surgery, you can do just about whatever you want. The navy and marines didn’t discharge the young men who had this operation. They went back to full duty. Come to think of it, it must be great to play golf all doped up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/rush-limbaughs-fall-from-grace/207755.md?page=4)