# Russia after Putin? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 6, 2015, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-after-putin/711976 "2015-02-06T15:57:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Coriolanus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coriolanus/32/18769_2.png) [@Coriolanus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coriolanus)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2015, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-after-putin/711976/21 "2015-03-15T21:57:32Z")
> [@chaika](#): > > Russia after Putin? Please God, let it be soon He hasn’t been seen since March 5th. Speculation abounds. Not much (read: anything) on pro-kremlin (read: All) .ru news sites here in St. Petersburg. Most of the speculation comes from the NYT, BBC and my brother. I’m surprise Wolf Blitzer isn’t all about this - no recent airline crashes. The rumours are, to wit: He went to Suisse to be with his gymnast baby-momma after their love-child was born Flu (or worse - I’ve heard pancreatic cancer too) Coup Nothing at all (Stupid Flanders: nothing at all…) And that may be the case. It’ll all be known tomorrow, certainly by the time Wall Street can price it in. He’s supposed to meet with the Kyrgyz dict- president here on Monday. One of the Kremlin TV channels already reported - on Friday - that meeting happened. Tomorrow. Time travel is a bitch. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [March 15, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-after-putin/711976/22 "2015-03-15T22:21:39Z")
I think he’s walking the Appalachian Trail. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-after-putin/711976/23 "2015-03-16T11:31:24Z")
[Putin has emerged.](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-31904882) If he saw his shadow, that means eight more weeks of winter. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-after-putin/711976/24 "2015-03-16T16:40:33Z")
> [@chaika](#): > > Russia after Putin? Please God, let it be soon. Not that I want him to die, just retire. The sooner the better. > > Since Russia has no tradition of representative democracy, it is hard to imagine that such a system will be put in place, at least not in the next decade or so. Russia had a real chance to alter its political system in the 1990s, but the economy was in such chaos that political change took a back seat to economic stability. Enter V.V. Putin and the subsequent strengthening of the office of president and rolling back of many advances. > > If one of Putin’s followers succeeds him, I don’t suppose things will change much. Power will still be concentrated in the hands of one individual surrounded by a small group of other powerful individuals, backed by larger groups in the security services, military, etc. Even if an opponent seizes control (and some commentators are suggesting that a palace coup of some sort is happening behind the scenes), I still don’t expect major changes because even Putin’s opponents within the power structure are still broadly supportive of his approach. The real opposition has no power at all these days. And you can thank Jeffrey Sachs and his neo liberal ilk for helping destroy that opportunity for Russians to embrace proper government ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2015, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-after-putin/711976/25 "2015-03-28T21:55:31Z")
> **[Russian Faith in \\](https://www.unz.com/akarlin/western-democracy-in-russia/)** > > This will probably be of no surprise to people who follow Russian sentiments, but still worth pointing out that according to the latest polls by Levada - an independent polling agency headed by pro-Western liberals - support for this thing called \\ Well, now we have some polling data, finally. Russians today are more likely to list Soviet-style communism as their preferred form of government (35%) than either liberal democracy (10%) or their current system (30%). And when asked to choose between “state planning and distribution” and “free markets”, central planning wins 55% to 25%. If you want to know what comes next after Putin falls, I’d say that should give us a pretty clear idea. Liberal democracy is the most unpopular it’s been since 1995. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-after-putin/711976/26 "2015-03-30T15:25:10Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > [Russian Faith in "Western-Style Democracy" Reaches All-Time Low, by Anatoly Karlin - The Unz Review](http://www.unz.com/akarlin/western-democracy-in-russia/) > > Well, now we have some polling data, finally. Russians today are more likely to list Soviet-style communism as their preferred form of government (35%) than either liberal democracy (10%) or their current system (30%). And when asked to choose between “state planning and distribution” and “free markets”, central planning wins 55% to 25%. > > If you want to know what comes next after Putin falls, I’d say that should give us a pretty clear idea. Liberal democracy is the most unpopular it’s been since 1995. Well, if Russia starts experimenting with socialism again, almost certainly it will not be the doctrinal revolutionize-the-whole-world kind that made the Bolsheviks appear such a threat to Western civilization in 1917. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-after-putin/711976/27 "2015-03-30T16:18:51Z")
Russians respect power. Even at the expense of certain social and personal freedoms. Especially those freedoms most often desired by minorities. That isn’t going to change significantly with the new generation of millenials either. Far too large a proportion of them feel nostalgic for a Greater Mother Russia they never knew but would like to return to. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-after-putin/711976/28 "2015-03-30T16:39:13Z")
Vladimir Putin, Jr. If not a natural offspring, then a clone out a facility buried deep in the Ural mountains. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-after-putin/711976/29 "2015-03-30T17:05:25Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, if Russia starts experimenting with socialism again, almost certainly it will not be the doctrinal revolutionize-the-whole-world kind that made the Bolsheviks appear such a threat to Western civilization in 1917. Russians never do anything by half measures. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-after-putin/711976/30 "2015-03-30T17:26:33Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Russians never do anything by half measures. Not even democracy? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-after-putin/711976/31 "2015-03-30T18:55:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Not even democracy? That is correct. They optimize it until to anyone outside looking in, it looks like an oligarchy. Even at the height of communism, voting was a requirement of being a Russian citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-after-putin/711976/32 "2015-03-30T18:58:51Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Not even democracy? Their attempt at democracy didn’t come anywhere near half measures. They’d have had to work three times as hard to reach half-_assed_. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2015, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-after-putin/711976/33 "2015-03-30T19:01:43Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Russians never do anything by half measures. From what I understand of their manufacturing during the Breshnev era, Quality Control was a half measure at best. Though their constant bragging of having the best of everything in the entire world was certainly full measure propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![Uniqueorn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/uniqueorn/32/2807_2.png) [@Uniqueorn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uniqueorn)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-after-putin/711976/34 "2015-03-31T13:46:11Z")
The best thing that could happen to Russia and Putin’s reputation is if he were to pull a Solon and then disappeared. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2015, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-after-putin/711976/35 "2015-03-31T18:02:17Z")
> [@Boyo\_Jim](#): > > From what I understand of their manufacturing during the Breshnev era, Quality Control was a half measure at best. Though their constant bragging of having the best of everything in the entire world was certainly full measure propaganda. The problem with the Brezhnev era manufacturing (Alec Nove argues) wasn’t really that they didn’t enforce quality control, it’s that in the absence of market pricing, they didn’t have any good way to define what ‘quality’ _was._ What they really had was ‘quantity control’, where various quantitative metrics were supposed to serve as proxies for what the economy needed, and that worked well enough to a degree, but not well enough to match the standard of living of western countries or even Central European ones. The issues with quantitative metrics substituting for qualitative/subjective ones is that you get things like truckdrivers choosing to drive to excessively remote locations and carry excessively heavy loads in order to rack up their kilogram x kilometer quotas, and so forth. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-after-putin/711976.md?page=1)