# Russia and the Jehovah’s Witnesses **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 29, 2017, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-jehovah-s-witnesses/785470 "2017-04-29T02:14:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ztransform](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/48db29/32.png) [@Ztransform](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ztransform)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-jehovah-s-witnesses/785470/1 "2017-04-29T02:14:11Z")
Apparently, the Russian State has banned the Jehovah’s Witnesses. Why has this happened, and is it justified? ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-jehovah-s-witnesses/785470/2 "2017-04-29T04:05:33Z")
> [@Ztransform](#): > > Apparently, the Russian State has banned the Jehovah’s Witnesses. > > Why has this happened, and is it justified? Of COURSE it isn’t justified. As for why, it’s because Putin sees Russian Orthodoxy as a valuable tool, and he doesn’t want any other so-called Christian denominations cutting in on the Orthodox church’s action. I don’t expect this to be the end. I expect the Russians to crack down on any and all non-Orthodox churches in Russia. Much to the chagrin of those few American conservatives who’ve convinced themselves that Putin is a friend of Christian values. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-jehovah-s-witnesses/785470/3 "2017-04-29T06:22:35Z")
Justified? What could possibly justify it? ---
**Author:** ![Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/channing_idaho_banks/32/250_2.png) [@Channing\_Idaho\_Banks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Channing_Idaho_Banks)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 6:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-jehovah-s-witnesses/785470/4 "2017-04-29T06:48:55Z")
JW is a cult and should be banned like other cults, if that’s what they want to do. I wouldn’t call this Christian persecution. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-jehovah-s-witnesses/785470/5 "2017-04-29T07:21:01Z")
Yes, it is justifed. They are pernicious cultists as bad as Scientologists. I wish the West would take a leaf from Putin’s book on this issue. Their practices of disfellowship and disassociation are typical of a cult which tries to keep its members cocooned from the influence of relatives. It will heartlessly encourage the breaking up of families with no concern at all for the consequences that may bring. Religious freedom stops when you start inflicting damage on others in its name. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-jehovah-s-witnesses/785470/6 "2017-04-29T07:28:10Z")
Bye GQ, hello IMHO forum (or worse). Not a fan of their religion and anti-science stance. But my or your opinion does not matter and a free society does not do this based on membership. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-jehovah-s-witnesses/785470/7 "2017-04-29T11:48:05Z")
It may very well be salami-slicing. You first ban the fringier Protestant sects like the JWs. That leaves, for example, evangelical/pentecostal type groups as the new fringe. Then ban those. Then Seventh Day Adventists, etc. After a bit all the Protestant groups are banned. Note that the Nazi’s also had a thing about the JWs and persecuted them. Some of their practices were a direct affront to the Nazis such as listed [here](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jehovah's_Witnesses_in_Nazi_Germany). Basically if you don’t 100% support the Big Guy and all his policies in a totalitarian state , you get screwed over. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-jehovah-s-witnesses/785470/8 "2017-04-29T12:14:49Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > Yes, it is justifed. They are pernicious cultists as bad as Scientologists. I wish the West would take a leaf from Putin’s book on this issue. Their practices of disfellowship and disassociation are typical of a cult which tries to keep its members cocooned from the influence of relatives. It will heartlessly encourage the breaking up of families with no concern at all for the consequences that may bring. Religious freedom stops when you start inflicting damage on others in its name. So Scientology should be banned too? ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-jehovah-s-witnesses/785470/9 "2017-04-29T14:01:30Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > I don’t expect this to be the end. I expect the Russians to crack down on any and all non-Orthodox churches in Russia. Much to the chagrin of those few American conservatives who’ve convinced themselves that Putin is a friend of Christian values. They already have. We have a friend who is a missionary over there. We just got a newsletter telling about the situation. Some of the restrictions are reminiscent of Soviet times. He says in the letter, "This year, in the interest of fighting ‘terrorism,’ the restrictive laws of that past era have almost completely been restored. Since June, believers here face heavy fines if they are caught passing out religious literature, inviting people to a religious service, or any other activity deemed to be ‘missionary.’ " ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-jehovah-s-witnesses/785470/10 "2017-04-29T15:16:45Z")
“First they came for the Jehovah’s Witnesses…” ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-jehovah-s-witnesses/785470/11 "2017-04-29T17:02:46Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > So Scientology should be banned too? The difference is the tactics: Yes, the way Jehovahs witness deal with people who want to leave is not good. But Scientology has several instances (with proof) infiltrated governmen agencies, stole documents and harrassed people to a degree not compatible with democratic society. That’s why several EU countries have put scientology on the “watch” list, but not JW. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2017, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-jehovah-s-witnesses/785470/12 "2017-04-29T17:15:13Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > So Scientology should be banned too? _Weeeellll…_ ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-jehovah-s-witnesses/785470/13 "2017-05-02T19:18:41Z")
By coincidence, a JW coworker just mentioned the Russian controversy to me today. She is one of two JW staffers I know; they’re as entitled to their religious beliefs as anyone. Freedom of worship is a core value of any liberal state. The U.S. State Department has weighed in: [https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2017-04-21/state-department-condemns-russian-clampdown-on-jehovahs-witnesses](https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2017-04-21/state-department-condemns-russian-clampdown-on-jehovahs-witnesses) ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-jehovah-s-witnesses/785470/14 "2017-05-02T19:43:42Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > So Scientology should be banned too? Not that I expect anyone to understand the distinction, but it’s possible to ban a specific institution without banning a faith. In this case, the Church of Scientology (the specific institution) is a corrupt, criminal organization, which should be prosecuted and broken up, whereas Scientology is (and should be) protected by the First Amendment, just like any other faith. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-jehovah-s-witnesses/785470/15 "2017-05-02T19:50:01Z")
> [@panache45](#): > > So Scientology should be banned too? Yes, that was my implication. That cult is even worse than JW in their treatment of apostates. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-jehovah-s-witnesses/785470/16 "2017-05-02T20:16:43Z")
> [@Derleth](#): > > Not that I expect anyone to understand the distinction, but it’s possible to ban a specific institution without banning a faith. In this case, the Church of Scientology (the specific institution) is a corrupt, criminal organization, which should be prosecuted and broken up, whereas Scientology is (and should be) protected by the First Amendment, just like any other faith. Yes, Scientology was created as a money-making scheme by a sci-fi author (who wasn’t bad, I enjoyed his Mission Earth series). It continues as one, and worse, with testimonies of kidnapping, harassment, indentured servitude, and so forth. If people want to believe in Xenu and earnestly worship or whatever they do that’s their right. I don’t care how a religion starts since they all have something dodgy in their pasts but organized crime is organized crime and the Church itself should be subject to RICO. My brother was involved with JW and while I don’t share their beliefs and I think they can be pretty harsh on their members (think old school Quaker stuff) it’s not on the order of Scientology. Some of them can be zealots that push it too far but that’s different than having an actual criminal motivation for your entire organization. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [May 2, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-jehovah-s-witnesses/785470/17 "2017-05-02T21:58:14Z")
Quakers? > [@Derleth](#): > > Not that I expect anyone to understand the distinction, but it’s possible to ban a specific institution without banning a faith. In this case, the Church of Scientology (the specific institution) is a corrupt, criminal organization, which should be prosecuted and broken up, whereas Scientology is (and should be) protected by the First Amendment, just like any other faith. And there actually are [schismatic Scientologists](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Zone_(Scientology)). ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-jehovah-s-witnesses/785470/18 "2017-05-03T14:34:15Z")
One important point nobody has mentioned: I knew a fellow whose parents (well, his mother) was JW. His friends said when growing up, he had to stand outside the classroom during the singing of “O Canada”. There’s some sort of concept that singing a national anthem is equivalent to idol worship. IIRC, they also don’t celebrate Christmas, and several other pagan holidays that were appropriated by the Christian churches. Plus, the whole blood transfusion thing… One could comprehend - even if we don’t approve - that a country strong on self-identification might take strong offence at a religion that says its members should not participate in patriotic observances. (Also, this fellow mentioned that his mother had wanted to sell the family home so that she could donate the money to the JW church elders before the coming end of the world, whenever that was, 1978 or 1983 or something. When his father refused, she approached him and his brother to see if they would agree to help her have him declared mentally incompetent so she could sell the house anyway. They didn’t. Cult or not?) ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2017, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-jehovah-s-witnesses/785470/19 "2017-05-03T15:44:45Z")
I am on record in many places here as stating that the JW religion, as a cultural system, is harmful to its own members. It’s basically a culture of abuse. I firmly believe that based on the testimony of a number of survivors and my own experience. That said, Russia’s ban has nothing to do with protecting the Russian people from them and everything to do with JW rhetoric about nation-states and earthly powers. That particular chunk of rhetoric has good solid roots in millennia of Christianity. I find that most people who are not JWs and yet who talk about JWs make the mistake of assuming that they’re just another Christian group, failing to realize how aberrant they are socially, or else of assuming that everything they do is because of twisted evil, failing to recognize that they are in fact a Christian group, and doctrinally not all THAT weird. ---
**Author:** ![Ztransform](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/48db29/32.png) [@Ztransform](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ztransform)\ **Post date:** [May 5, 2017, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-jehovah-s-witnesses/785470/20 "2017-05-05T06:36:08Z")
I’m pretty shocked some people are a-okay with the suppression of a religious sect, especially one with a history of repression in Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union and amazingly to me Canada. [via Wikipedia] I always viewed them as benign if a little annoying when they turned up at our doorstep. addendum: About the blood donation rule, I would have thought vis-a-vis children that the courts could mandate treatment. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-jehovah-s-witnesses/785470.md?page=2)