# Russia and the Ukraine: Why should I care? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-ukraine-why-should-i-care/960067 "2022-02-24T19:11:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-ukraine-why-should-i-care/960067/23 "2022-02-25T16:26:41Z")
I hear what you are saying. But heck, I have no difficicalty remembering that we shouldn’t have invaded Panama in Operation Just Cause (we can!). Add it to the list. And how ought I “push my government” to act? Hate to say it, but I’m not convinced that phone calls/leters/emails from constituents are al that effective. Why and how much should I care about Taiwan? And what should I want my government to do about it? Meanwhile, the house needs cleaning, the dog needs trimming, looks like a busy day at work today, gotta get going on the taxes… ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-ukraine-why-should-i-care/960067/24 "2022-02-25T16:37:01Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > And how ought I “push my government” to act? Hate to say it, but I’m not convinced that phone calls/leters/emails from constituents are al that effective. You individually? Nothing. But politicians are going to go where the voters are, and if enough voters care, so will politicians. Do I think this will happen? No. But you asked and that’s what I think. > [@Dinsdale](#): > > Why and how much should I care about Taiwan? And what should I want my government to do about it? Same answer as to why you should care about Ukraine…but moreso. Unlike Ukraine, Taiwan is an essential part of the world’s economy. It’s also in a vital trade route area. So, if you like to trade and stuff you should care, even if you don’t give a shit about the fact that Taiwan is a democratic system that will be crushed under the CCP, or what that will entail wrt the number of deaths likely to take place. In addition, Taiwan is responsible for a large percentage of chip manufacturing, so, assuming you like electronics or all the things those chips go into, you should probably care about that as well. As to what you want your government to do about it, depends on what country you live in. If it’s the US, then the best thing we could do right now is to open up the taps on military aid, especially of the more critical things like anti-air/anti-missile defenses as well as anti-ship systems…and assistance with training. You should also care about the fact that, unlike Ukraine, the US does have an agreement with Taiwan to defend itself, and while there is wiggle room in that, it’s more than likely the US would assist Taiwan in this. Which could mean we’d be going to war to some degree with China. So…that should make everyone care, at least a bit. I have 2 sons stationed in the Pacific, one actually in Japan, so I definitely care about all of this. But even if you don’t have anything like that, you should care. Just like we all should care what’s going on in Ukraine right now. We are seeing the shape of things to come, especially if this is as successful for Putin and his merry band as it seems to be. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-ukraine-why-should-i-care/960067/25 "2022-02-25T17:03:49Z")
Like someone else said, I guess one ought to care that this suggests a continued change in worldwide power dynamics. But maybe the US has been bullies long enough, and if we had conducted ourselves otherwise, … ---
**Author:** ![Chingon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chingon/32/17645_2.png) [@Chingon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chingon)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-ukraine-why-should-i-care/960067/26 "2022-02-25T17:09:18Z")
So don’t care then, no one really needs you to. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-ukraine-why-should-i-care/960067/27 "2022-02-25T17:15:06Z")
I don’t know which is morally worse when innocent people are dying, being injured, and seeing their homes and homeland destroyed by ruthless thugs: those who wonder why they should care, or those who worry about how it will affect the price of gas. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-ukraine-why-should-i-care/960067/28 "2022-02-25T18:19:08Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > ALL ABOARD! > Wished you’d shown that concern for Iraqis, Palestinians, Afghans, Libyans, Syrians, Yemeni _tu quoque_: Not a valid argument. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-ukraine-why-should-i-care/960067/29 "2022-02-25T18:50:43Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Wished you’d shown that concern for Iraqis, Palestinians, Afghans, Libyans, Syrians, Yemeni Maybe he did. Do you have an ESP machine? ---
**Author:** ![carrps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carrps/32/2957_2.png) [@carrps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carrps)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-ukraine-why-should-i-care/960067/30 "2022-02-25T19:04:52Z")
> [@its\_the\_daddy](#): > > No man is an island, entire of itself; every man is a > piece of the continent, a part of the main; if a clod > be washed away by the sea, Europe is the less, as well > as if a promontory were, as well as if a manor of thy > friend’s or of thine own were; any man’s death > diminishes me, because I am involved in mankind, and > therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; > it tolls for thee. Y’know, this poem (or at least a line or two of it) has become so familiar and over-used, that half the time I hear it I just hear “yadda yadda yadda.” But it brought me near to tears today. ---
**Author:** ![glee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b5a626/32.png) [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-ukraine-why-should-i-care/960067/31 "2022-02-25T19:38:46Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > To me the US centric caring reason is the relationship Putin has with Trump, and Trump’s history of leaving ‘time bombs’ that Biden needs to clean up (such as Afghanistan pullout) and what this aggressive stance from Putin could mean if Trump can get back in as President. And if this was part of a time bomb from Trump, for Trump taking the presidency back and then ending any sanctions against Russia, and perhaps removing the US from NATO or at least any NATO response. Yes indeed. Trump has effectively encouraged Putin to attack the Ukraine with remarks like: He is “pretty smart,” Mr. Trump said on Wednesday at a Florida fund-raiser, assessing the impending invasion like a real estate deal. “He’s taken over a country for $2 worth of sanctions,” he said, “taking over a country — really a vast, vast location, a great piece of land with a lot of people — and just walking right in.” So next Putin will try to fix the next US Presidential election so that Trump gets back in. 🤢 Then Putin plays on Trump’s ego (and Trump’s stupidity) and gets Trump to withdraw from NATO (etc.) ---
**Author:** ![RickG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rickg/32/5174_2.png) [@RickG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickG)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-ukraine-why-should-i-care/960067/32 "2022-02-25T21:25:11Z")
Beyond the big-picture reasons given by others (geopolitical, humanitarian, humanist), I have a small-scale one to add for myself. The company I work for contracts with a Ukrainian company for software QA people. I’ve been working with some of them for several years, know them as well as some of my domestically-based collegues, like them a lot, and care very much about their safety. When John Donne gave the “No man is an island” sermon, it was the mid-17th century and the world was _huge_. Most people had little or no contact with those who lived 50 miles away, much less 5 or 10 thousand, and distant events had indirect and delayed impacts. The world is now _tiny_. The connections between people separated by long distances, as between me and my Ukrainian colleagues, are much tighter, and events across the world have much greater impact, much more quickly, than they did in 1642. That’s why I care, and think everyone else should, too. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-ukraine-why-should-i-care/960067/33 "2022-02-25T21:35:44Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > If the West simply allows Russia to annex Ukraine with no consequences we can have peace in our time. First, to uphold the finest tradition of SDMB pedantry, the quote is apparently “Peace _for_ our time” which I just learned. Second, yes. You are exactly spot-on to raise the specter of Chamberlain in asserting the importance of the rest of the world “caring” about the Ukraine situation. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-ukraine-why-should-i-care/960067/34 "2022-02-25T21:37:44Z")
I actually looked it up prior to posting and discovered just that, but decided that it was so commonly misquoted as ‘in’ that it would be more recognizable that way. ---
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-ukraine-why-should-i-care/960067/35 "2022-02-25T21:42:41Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > I actually looked it up prior to posting and discovered just that, but decided that it was so commonly misquoted as ‘in’ that it would be more recognizable that way I know what you mean. It’s that sort of phenomenon that gives pause when I want to employ “literally” in its proper\* way. I worry that it will only be understood as a hackneyed intensifier and not as I intended. \*Yeah, I know. Now you can pendant on me–what is currently considered proper in this case? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-ukraine-why-should-i-care/960067/36 "2022-02-25T21:53:55Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > what is currently considered proper in this case? Literally any way you want. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-ukraine-why-should-i-care/960067/37 "2022-02-25T22:21:11Z")
Perhaps a poetry reading will help resolve the Ukraine crisis. [Actress’s Bizarre Poetry Video Message to Vladimir Putin Viewed 6.5M Times (newsweek.com)](https://www.newsweek.com/actresss-bizarre-poetry-video-message-vladimir-putin-viewed-65m-times-1682476) ---
**Author:** ![CoolHandCox](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coolhandcox/32/16233_2.png) [@CoolHandCox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CoolHandCox)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-ukraine-why-should-i-care/960067/38 "2022-02-25T22:21:36Z")
I care because invading unprovoked and removing a democratically elected leader/government is illegal extremely immoral. Just like murder is illegal and immoral. I expect those kinds of illegal wrongs to be condemned and for the bad actors to be punished for it. This should be done to deter others from doing the same. If you don’t do that, or care that it’s done, it won’t stop in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-ukraine-why-should-i-care/960067/39 "2022-02-25T22:57:17Z")
Here’s a fairly good article out of India, on why it matters: > **[Why Ukraine Is Different (Published 2022)](https://indianexpress.com/article/world/why-ukraine-is-different-7784485/?utm_source=Taboola_Recirculation&utm_medium=RC&utm_campaign=IE)** > > A Russian invasion of Ukraine would be unlike most wars in 80 years. > [@](#): > > But the world’s most powerful countries have rarely used force to expand their boundaries or set up client states in their region. Instead, they have generally abided by the treaties and international rules established in the 1940s. The phrase “Pax Americana” describes this stability. > > The relative peace has had enormous benefits. Living standards have surged, with people living longer, healthier and more comfortable lives on average than their ancestors. In recent decades, the largest gains have come in lower-income countries. The decline in warfare has played a central role: By the start of this century, the rate at which people were dying in armed conflicts had fallen to the lowest level in recorded history, as Joshua Goldstein, Steven Pinker and other scholars have noted. In general, the more that democracy falls, the more that Russia, China, etc. will be able to extend propaganda into the US to encourage a collapse of our government and a replacement by authoritarian government. To be sure, that’s a long road and there’s nothing to say that we won’t hold out as a stable democracy. But if we do, it will be a small island surrounded by people who are aggressive and militaristic - in a world that knows how to make weapons several times more dangerous than we ever had in WWII. The more nutball nations there are in the world, the greater the chance of a true calamity. Global law and order, Pax Americana, allows you to live in a world where all of that feels very far away. Personally, I’d rather stay that way. One might also note that it’s just good to not want people to get murdered for no reason. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-ukraine-why-should-i-care/960067/40 "2022-02-25T23:24:54Z")
> [@Dinsdale](#): > > And how ought I “push my government” to act? To defend borders? ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-ukraine-why-should-i-care/960067/41 "2022-02-26T04:19:51Z")
To pile onto Taiwan, which is only the tip of the iceberg. China is already trying to make the south China Sea down to Indonesia part of its territory. Based on even lessor “historic” claims than Russia has on the Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-ukraine-why-should-i-care/960067/42 "2022-02-26T08:00:08Z")
Well said. I also have co-workers in Ukraine, and I work in computer security. To bring it back to the macro: having them live in relative peace and calm enhances your security. ETA: And I fixed/helped a machine running on a .ru domain today. Even the Russians should care, really. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-ukraine-why-should-i-care/960067.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-and-the-ukraine-why-should-i-care/960067.md?page=3)