# Russia Begins Air Strikes in Syria. **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 30, 2015, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-begins-air-strikes-in-syria/733029 "2015-09-30T13:03:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/not_what_you_d_expect/32/3246_2.png) [@not\_what\_you\_d\_expect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/not_what_you_d_expect)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-begins-air-strikes-in-syria/733029/1 "2015-09-30T13:03:32Z")
They’ve asked the US to stay out of the way. They even said please. [http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34399164](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34399164) How worried should I be about this guys? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-begins-air-strikes-in-syria/733029/2 "2015-09-30T13:19:02Z")
Unless you’re Syrian, not at all. ETA: Or a Russian pilot. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-begins-air-strikes-in-syria/733029/3 "2015-09-30T13:40:09Z")
Good. Obama needs to give up on the fantasy of the “Moderate Syrian Opposition” and accept that we have the following choices: (A) Tolerate the Assad regiem; (B) Let ISIS take over Syria; del[/del] \<— There is no choice C. If we don’t want ISIS to create a literal Islamic State (one that makes Iran look like a model of tolerance & inclusivity, at that), then we need to accept Assad as the lesser of the two evils. It’s not fun, but as grownups we all know that sometimes that’s how the world works. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-begins-air-strikes-in-syria/733029/4 "2015-09-30T13:43:58Z")
Russia, to drive home a point, chose to make its first airstrikes on non-Daesh rebels. Russia is in Syria to support Assad “in his fight against terrorists”. Not to put down Daesh. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-begins-air-strikes-in-syria/733029/5 "2015-09-30T15:24:09Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Russia, to drive home a point, chose to make its first airstrikes on non-Daesh rebels. Russia is in Syria to support Assad “in his fight against terrorists”. Not to put down Daesh. Not an actual air warrior, just a REMF my entire career, but I’d think that anyone in a cockpit in that environment would be worried about being in someone else’s uncoordinated air combat environment. Flying a low-level mission surely can be risky enough without worrying, for instance, that someone flying a bit higher might be dropping bombs through your vicinity. Not to mention the occasional midair collision from an incoherently managed airspace. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2015, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-begins-air-strikes-in-syria/733029/6 "2015-09-30T15:32:04Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Not an actual air warrior, just a REMF my entire career, but I’d think that anyone in a cockpit in that environment would be worried about being in someone else’s uncoordinated air combat environment. > > Flying a low-level mission surely can be risky enough without worrying, for instance, that someone flying a bit higher might be dropping bombs through your vicinity. Not to mention the occasional midair collision from an incoherently managed airspace. That is why Russia requested the US Air Force to clear out or Syrian air space. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-begins-air-strikes-in-syria/733029/7 "2015-10-01T14:06:37Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > That is why Russia requested the US Air Force to clear out or Syrian air space. Like that’s going to happen. “We’re here, now, so you just run along.” So, I hope SOMEONE is trying to do some good-faith deconfliction. Otherwise, it’s a shit-storm game of chicken. What a charlie foxtrot. The Turks are bombing the US’s notional allies in the rebellion, the Kurds. The Russians are bombing the US’s other notional allies in the rebellion. And once in a while, the US bombs the ISIS guys. I guess it works out that the kill boxes don’t overlap, unless it gets into an actual CAS situation, in which case faction A might be bombing faction B’s proxy while faction B is bombing faction A’s proxy. And then it gets ugly (for the air forces). I’m pretty sure it’s pretty damn ugly on the ground already. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-begins-air-strikes-in-syria/733029/8 "2015-10-01T14:25:45Z")
> [@gnoitall](#): > > Like that’s going to happen. > > “We’re here, now, so you just run along.” > > So, I hope SOMEONE is trying to do some good-faith deconfliction. Otherwise, it’s a shit-storm game of chicken. > > What a charlie foxtrot. The Turks are bombing the US’s notional allies in the rebellion, the Kurds. The Russians are bombing the US’s other notional allies in the rebellion. And once in a while, the US bombs the ISIS guys. > > I guess it works out that the kill boxes don’t overlap, unless it gets into an actual CAS situation, in which case faction A might be bombing faction B’s proxy while faction B is bombing faction A’s proxy. And then it gets ugly (for the air forces). I’m pretty sure it’s pretty damn ugly on the ground already. Bob Casey (D senator, close to the administration) was on the radio as I was driving in the morning. He said that Russians are bombing US allied rebels and (I am quoting) “United States will not tolerate that”. The host on CNN immediately jumped on that and asked “What exactly will US do?”. After which Casey went into “Kerry has to talk to Lavrov” routine. Like that will do anything. Looks like another “red line” being set up to be crossed and Obama will do nothing. Look, Putin is a bully. He also has more legitimacy to be in Syria militarily (since he has been actually invited by its government) than US and France do. So he’s going to bomb whom he wants. And the US will sputter and Kerry will “talk to Lavrov” and there will be stern statements but that’s it. I mean, what is US going to do - shoot down a Russian plane? Do you really see Obama doing that? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-begins-air-strikes-in-syria/733029/9 "2015-10-01T14:54:39Z")
“Invited by the Syrian government” is hardly a sign of legitimacy, given that the Syrian government is not really a functional government at this point. Besides, Assad is hardly going to “invite” foreign military assistance from countries that want him out of power. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-begins-air-strikes-in-syria/733029/10 "2015-10-01T15:25:04Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > “Invited by the Syrian government” is hardly a sign of legitimacy, given that the Syrian government is not really a functional government at this point. Besides, Assad is hardly going to “invite” foreign military assistance from countries that want him out of power. Well yeah, but the US-trained rebels rather infamously consists of about 5 guys. One well-placed missle could wipe out the whole lot. And in other recent news, the Kurds are unhappy because the US is supplying them with armored vehicles. Except the armor is not included. [Cite.](http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2015/09/30/rpg-magnet-us-gives-iraqi-allies-vehicles-with-no-side-armor/) :smack: Face it, the US is just dicking around in Syria. Time to back off and let the adults deal with the situation. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-begins-air-strikes-in-syria/733029/11 "2015-10-01T15:28:29Z")
Ramping up US involvement: “Obama is wasting our blood and treasure!” Withdrawing US forces: “Obama is caving to Putin!” But yeah, there’s nothing for us there right now. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-begins-air-strikes-in-syria/733029/12 "2015-10-01T15:31:44Z")
Putin met with Obama on Sept 28. Putin looked Obama in the eye and the following day orders the U.S. out of Syrian airspace. It seems that Putin was not impressed with Obama. What’s Obama going to do about this? Probably nothing. Kerry will have meetings with his Russian counter-part and they will decide that more meetings are required. Yawn. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-begins-air-strikes-in-syria/733029/13 "2015-10-01T15:37:41Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Putin looked Obama in the eye and the following day orders the U.S. out of Syrian airspace. What utter nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-begins-air-strikes-in-syria/733029/14 "2015-10-01T15:54:28Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I mean, what is US going to do - shoot down a Russian plane? Do you really see Obama doing that? I really hope not. That would be an incredibly weak decision that would greatly weaken America. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-begins-air-strikes-in-syria/733029/15 "2015-10-01T16:04:53Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > What utter nonsense. What part did I get wrong? The fact that Putin and Obama just met? Or the fact that Putin ordered U.S. planes out of Russia, oops, Syrian airspace? Putin must be shakin’ in his Russian military boots at the thought of how Obama will respond. That must be why Putin is not currently bombing in Syria? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-begins-air-strikes-in-syria/733029/16 "2015-10-01T16:10:00Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > What part did I get wrong? The fact that Putin and Obama just met? Or the fact that Putin ordered U.S. planes out of Russia, oops, Syrian airspace? > > Putin must be shakin’ in his Russian military boots at the thought of how Obama will respond. That must be why Putin is not currently bombing in Syria? :rolleyes: I hear ya. A white republican president would have actually wrestled Putin for control of Syrian airspace and made him run away crying. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-begins-air-strikes-in-syria/733029/17 "2015-10-01T16:18:14Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I hear ya. A white republican president would have actually wrestled Putin for control of Syrian airspace and made him run away crying. Hahahaha. Can I assume you’re done discussing the current situation in Syria? Or is Putin dropping strawmen on Syria? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-begins-air-strikes-in-syria/733029/18 "2015-10-01T16:59:41Z")
> [@doorhinge](#): > > Hahahaha. Can I assume you’re done discussing the current situation in Syria? Or is Putin dropping strawmen on Syria? Sorry. Foul mood today. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-begins-air-strikes-in-syria/733029/19 "2015-10-01T17:47:24Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > “Invited by the Syrian government” is hardly a sign of legitimacy, given that the Syrian government is not really a functional government at this point. That’s a lot more legitimacy, as I pointed out, than the US and French strikes in Syria, which are not backed by either a UNSC decision or Syria’s government request. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2015, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-begins-air-strikes-in-syria/733029/20 "2015-10-01T17:50:51Z")
BBC News has a very well thought out article. They also bring up our special forces. What happens if they are with rebels that get bombed? This can get out of hand pretty quick. Russia and the US have to cooperate in Syria… > **[How Putin blindsided the US over Syria](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34405983)** > > There should be no surprise over what the Russians have done in Syria, but Americans are blindsided. Why? Vladimir Putin has been clear all along. > [@](#): > > President Vladimir Putin had a meeting with President Barack Obama on Monday night to explain what Russia’s plan was - and although there were profound differences, US officials said they understood better what Russia’s intentions were. > > And yet. > > Isn’t there something totally jaw-dropping, gob-smacking, eyebrow-arching, ear twitchingly extraordinary - and not to mention, casual - about the way the Americans learnt about Russian plans? > > It began with a phone call from a Russian diplomat to his counterpart in Baghdad to say “we’ve got something interesting to tell you”. > > Then a three-star Russian general leaves the Russian embassy compound and knocks on the door of the American one, and asks to see the US military attache. > > He tells the American military man that bombing starts in an hour, so you’d better get out of Syrian airspace now and move any assets you have off the ground. And 60 minutes later, the bombing started. > > Wow. To say the Americans were blindsided by this unorthodox line of communication is to put it mildly. Having had their “clear the air” meeting on Monday night there was an anticipation that though there might be big policy differences, there would be a degree of co-ordination and openness. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-begins-air-strikes-in-syria/733029.md?page=2)