# Russia has invaded Ukraine. How should the West respond? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 3, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-should-the-west-respond/682772 "2014-03-03T18:42:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-should-the-west-respond/682772/1 "2014-03-03T18:42:56Z")
Spinoff from [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=717050) thread, “should” being a very different question from “will” and debatable in its own right. I say, with nothing beyond economic sanctions. Let’s not stir up an actual war if it can be avoided. What interests have Western powers in the Crimea anyway? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-should-the-west-respond/682772/2 "2014-03-03T18:46:02Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Spinoff from [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=717050) thread, “should” being a very different question from “will” and debatable in its own right. > > I say, with nothing beyond economic sanctions. Let’s not stir up an actual war if it can be avoided. What interests have Western powers in the Crimea anyway? About as much “interests” as Western powers had in Sudetenland… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 6:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-should-the-west-respond/682772/3 "2014-03-03T18:50:42Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > About as much “interests” as Western powers had in Sudetenland… Godwinized in one post! 🙂 Is that a record? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-should-the-west-respond/682772/4 "2014-03-03T18:52:30Z")
Well, if there is going to be another Crimean War, I volunteer **Terr** for the Light Brigade! Come on, **Terr,** to horse! For Queen and Country! Don’t show the white feather, it’s only a lousy machine-gun nest you’re charging on horseback! Oh, would I were a younger man and could go with you, lad! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-should-the-west-respond/682772/5 "2014-03-03T19:03:08Z")
I really, really don’t think the difference between would and should deserved another thread. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-should-the-west-respond/682772/6 "2014-03-03T19:07:47Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Well, if there is going to be another Crimean War, I volunteer **Terr** for the Light Brigade! Come on, **Terr,** to horse! For Queen and Country! Don’t show the white feather, it’s only a lousy machine-gun nest you’re charging on horseback! Oh, would I were a younger man and could go with you, lad! 🙂 Failing that, I can get you a slot in the Lite Brigade. Your mission is to approach the Russians under flag of truce and politely ask them to pull back. Not that it isn’t a dangerous mission: The Russian for “Pardon me, but would you please leave off, if you don’t mind terribly?” is within one consonantal palatalization of “Suck my cock, faggot!” In Russian history, this fact has occasioned many needless deaths and several pleasant surprises. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-should-the-west-respond/682772/7 "2014-03-03T19:14:20Z")
Nothing. We don’t have a dog in this fight. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-should-the-west-respond/682772/8 "2014-03-03T19:19:41Z")
Any response should be: 1. Diplomatic and economic; not military 2. In full concert with our allies and the support of the U.N. (though obviously a Security Council resolution is probably out of the question). The U.S. needs to respond as a member of the community of nations and not as a unilateral enforcer of international law. Terr, are we safe to assume that whatever action the Obama administration takes, we should have done the opposite? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-should-the-west-respond/682772/9 "2014-03-03T19:24:37Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Failing that, I can get you a slot in the Lite Brigade. Your mission is to approach the Russians under flag of truce and politely ask them to pull back. > > Not that it isn’t a dangerous mission: The Russian for “Pardon me, but would you please leave off, if you don’t mind terribly?” is within one consonantal palatalization of “Suck my cock, faggot!” In Russian history, this fact has occasioned many needless deaths and several pleasant surprises. All right, that’s enough BrainGlutton. That whole thing is out of line. I’ll leave this open for the moment but I’m leaning towards considering it a duplicate thread and may elect to close it as such at any time. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-should-the-west-respond/682772/10 "2014-03-03T19:40:05Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I really, really don’t think the difference between would and should deserved another thread. How about “could”? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-should-the-west-respond/682772/11 "2014-03-03T19:59:23Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > I really, really don’t think the difference between would and should deserved another thread. It’s a completely different question, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-should-the-west-respond/682772/12 "2014-03-03T20:34:10Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > It’s a completely different question, isn’t it? As John Mace joked above “could” is a completely different question too, but all three “\_oulds” were being discussed quite comfortably in the other thread. IMHO, of course. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-should-the-west-respond/682772/13 "2014-03-03T20:40:45Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > As John Mace joked above “could” is a completely different question too, but all three “\_oulds” were being discussed quite comfortably in the other thread. IMHO, of course. Yeah, and it was getting kinda hijacked over Kerry-and-Iraq shit. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-should-the-west-respond/682772/14 "2014-03-03T20:47:17Z")
Well, NotfooledbyW and Redfury haven’t found this thread yet. Good luck! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-should-the-west-respond/682772/15 "2014-03-03T21:07:31Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > All right, that’s enough BrainGlutton. That whole thing is out of line. > > I’ll leave this open for the moment but I’m leaning towards considering it a duplicate thread and may elect to close it as such at any time. :dubious: What it was, was too good not to use, and you know it, Mod. There’s no actual insult of **Terr** implied. And this thread **is** distinguishable from the other, and also necessary (partly because of developments in the other). ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-should-the-west-respond/682772/16 "2014-03-03T22:17:57Z")
Seems to me that Putin and Russia are playing the role of schoolyard bully with these antics in the expectation that the West’s reply won’t have any teeth. Any economic sanctions need to be VERY severe; as in have the potential to wreck the Russians economically. None of this pussyfooting around like we’ve done with Iran for years; the Russians and Putin should know better than to act like this if they want to be in the big leagues with Western Europe, and if they persist, they should get slapped down pretty hard. I fear that what we’ll (the West) will do is some relatively ineffective sanctions, and discontinue them far too early, and all that Russia/Putin will learn is that we have no teeth, and that these sorts of shenanigans will not be met with decisive action or anything that he should give a shit about. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-should-the-west-respond/682772/17 "2014-03-03T22:46:58Z")
**Russian rouble hits new low against the dollar and euro** > **[Russian rouble hits new low against the dollar and euro](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-26414285)** > > Russia's rouble has fallen to a fresh all-time low against both the dollar and the euro after the political turmoil in Ukraine intensified. Russia is EU’s third largest trade partner. The EU is Russia’s biggest trade partner. Most of Russia’s trade with the EU is energy. Spring is coming. EU’s exports to Russia are much more diversified. Is Russia as flush with cash as it’s acting? How long can they last before Russian patriotism and nationalism are hit in the face with a little economic deprivation? Putin’s got a grip on the media and protesters, but for how long? There was a suggestion by a Ukrainian official that Ukraine block Russian TV into Ukraine, since it’s all made up propaganda and fear mongering. That would probably just stoke more nationalist paranoia. What the west should do, is make sure there are a large variety of western TV channels available everywhere in Ukraine, free (assuming that isn’t already the case). Eastern and southern Ukrainians need to be reminded there is a much bigger world outside of Russia’s influence, and it’s not happy at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-should-the-west-respond/682772/18 "2014-03-03T23:11:20Z")
The response should be an ultimatum: there will be immediate withdrawal or we will return to dealing with Russia as we dealt with the USSR, the Kennan doctrine of containment, which is also economic. Tariffs on energy exports, travel restrictions, etc. We won Cold War I, and we can win Cold War II also. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-should-the-west-respond/682772/19 "2014-03-03T23:15:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :dubious: What it was, was too good not to use, and you know it, Mod. There’s no actual insult of **Terr** implied. And this thread **is** distinguishable from the other, and also necessary (partly because of developments in the other). Respectfully, your claim that no insult was intended is not credible. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2014, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-should-the-west-respond/682772/20 "2014-03-03T23:22:40Z")
I would say both parts were some of the best things evah on this board. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-should-the-west-respond/682772.md?page=2)