# Russia has invaded Ukraine. How will the West respond? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [February 28, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513 "2014-02-28T15:06:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 106
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2101 "2014-03-30T17:52:02Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Seriously, I don’t understand why Russia would be so interested in their former satellites not joining NATO _unless Russia was intending to attack them_. If Russia isn’t planning to attack them, then who cares who your neighbors go war game with? NATO isn’t a threat to Russia except in reaction to Russia attacking a member. I’m guessing geo-politics wasn’t your Major. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Translation: Here’s something I agree with. > > Any attempt to analyze the current situation without reference to [The Budapest Memorandum](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances) isn’t worth the electrons it’s disseminated with. Putin wouldn’t wipe his arse on that. And that isn’t news. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2102 "2014-03-30T19:07:00Z")
[QUOTE=BrokenBriton] I’m guessing geo-politics wasn’t your Major. [/QUOTE] Was it yours? If so, feel free to share with the rest of us your vast wisdom on this subject, since your drive by propaganda link didn’t seem to really be enough. I figure it has something to do with how poor Russia is feeling threatened by the evil Western Europeans who are allowing the former Soviet conquests into NATO, and how the Europeans should halt this practice (possibly reversing it and cutting loose all of those deluded former Soviet conquests to go back into the waiting arms of the Rodina) so that the Soviets…er, sorry, the Russians…can feel good about snapping them back up once they are strong enough again. But that’s just my guess…could be with your major in geo-politics and ability to guess someones major you have more to share on this. > [@](#): > > Putin wouldn’t wipe his arse on that. And that isn’t news. Well, obviously he would, since that’s essentially what he’s done here. But never fear, there is always the rest of the Ukraine for him to wipe his ass on, and after that he seems to be making noises toward Estonia and Latvia as well, so his butt should be nice and clean for the foreseeable future, no? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2103 "2014-03-30T19:33:48Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Putin wouldn’t wipe his arse on that. And that isn’t news. Which is why no one trusts him now. He’s driving Eastern Europeans, including Ukrainians, _closer_ to The West, not pulling them closer to him. This will prove to have been a mistake for him. ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2104 "2014-03-30T20:13:38Z")
[Demonstration in Odessa today, 30.03](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSC1opCoN6o) - that’s a pretty big demonstration. I thought it was mostly over at this point, but now I wonder if it is gaining momentum. ---
**Author:** ![dasmoocher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/dbc845/32.png) [@dasmoocher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dasmoocher)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2105 "2014-03-30T20:19:33Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > You can’t be serious. Holy shit. ROTFLMAO. You owe me a new keyboard. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2106 "2014-03-30T20:36:28Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > You can’t be serious. Alas, it would seem so. ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2107 "2014-03-30T20:50:10Z")
If the Ukrainians aren’t showing any motivation to either join NATO or shoot Russians (or both) there’s no reason for the West to expend treasure or the lives of its military members in the defense of the nation. There has to be an intrinsic desire for a free Ukrainian state before there can be much of an extrinsic desire for one. Call me when the Ukrainians tell the Russian government that they are going to send home some dead Russian soldiers. Until then…. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2108 "2014-03-30T20:50:15Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > I’m guessing geo-politics wasn’t your Major. I’m guessing that doesn’t refute a word of what I said. When you return, please bing a debate of some sort, irrelevant comments will be ignored in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Falesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Falesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falesh)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2109 "2014-03-30T21:06:09Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > If the Ukrainians aren’t showing any motivation to either join NATO or shoot Russians (or both) there’s no reason for the West to expend treasure or the lives of its military members in the defense of the nation. There has to be an intrinsic desire for a free Ukrainian state before there can be much of an extrinsic desire for one. > > Call me when the Ukrainians tell the Russian government that they are going to send home some dead Russian soldiers. Until then…. I find it depressing that you think not killing people is so intrinsically bad that everyone else should ignore said non-killers until they damn well kill someone. Thankfully there are enough people who think not killing people is actually quite a good thing and will assist non-killers diplomatically in order to help them solve their problems. ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2110 "2014-03-30T21:18:55Z")
> [@Falesh](#): > > I find it depressing that you think not killing people is so intrinsically bad that everyone else should ignore said non-killers until they damn well kill someone. Thankfully there are enough people who think not killing people is actually quite a good thing and will assist non-killers diplomatically in order to help them solve their problems. I find it depressing that the Ukrainian people won’t defend their homeland with their lives as well as with their words. Since armed service members from my country may be asked to place their lives on the line to defend this nation, if they aren’t showing a willingness to do this themselves, then I don’t think that my country’s involvement in this matter should extend beyond peripherally supporting it and the democratic process. Perhaps you can see a scenario where the Russian nation will respect Ukrainian sovereignty without resorting to open warfare. If so, I would advise you to forward that idea or plan to the appropriate agencies as they seem to have run out of ideas and plans themselves. At this juncture, the use of military force seems to be the only option left to prevent Ukraine or sizable portions of it from being reabsorbed into Russia proper. ---
**Author:** ![Falesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Falesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falesh)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2111 "2014-03-30T21:39:17Z")
> [@nevadaexile](#): > > I find it depressing that the Ukrainian people won’t defend their homeland with their lives as well as with their words. Since armed service members from my country may be asked to place their lives on the line to defend this nation, if they aren’t showing a willingness to do this themselves, then I don’t think that my country’s involvement in this matter should extend beyond peripherally supporting it and the democratic process. > > Perhaps you can see a scenario where the Russian nation will respect Ukrainian sovereignty without resorting to open warfare. If so, I would advise you to forward that idea or plan to the appropriate agencies as they seem to have run out of ideas and plans themselves. At this juncture, the use of military force seems to be the only option left to prevent Ukraine or sizable portions of it from being reabsorbed into Russia proper. It has been made quite plain that we are not going to be going to war with Russia to defend Ukraine. If you have information pointing to the fact that NATO, or whoever else, will be sending troops into a shooting war then please link it. With regards to solving problems without the use of force, it can be done. There are plenty of levers that can be used against Russia, the fact that its economy is in such a state only adds to that. You should also check up on historical acts of not killing people to see that they can bring about quite substantial victories. Researching Ghandi, who probably quite liked India even though he didn’t kill people, might be a good start. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2014, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2112 "2014-03-30T23:32:23Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > He’s driving Eastern Europeans, including Ukrainians, _closer_ to The West, not pulling them closer to him. It didnt matter what Putin did or does now to attract or endear Ukraine to him. Ukraine’s current government and President came to power via anti-Russian mob rule. And that occurred before the Crimeans made their move to separate. Putin has thus far reacted to the violent mob that overthrew the head of state. He does not see a legitimately elected government where eastern Ukraine and Crimean formerly had a voice. Now you claim that Putin is driving Eastern Ukrainians away too. But they had no say in what went down in Kiev. And had Putin reacted by doing nothing at all it is doubtful that the mob would change its mind about Putin and getting close to him or his Russia. ---
**Author:** ![nevadaexile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/eb8c5e/32.png) [@nevadaexile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nevadaexile)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2113 "2014-03-31T00:02:23Z")
> [@Falesh](#): > > It has been made quite plain that we are not going to be going to war with Russia to defend Ukraine. If you have information pointing to the fact that NATO, or whoever else, will be sending troops into a shooting war then please link it. > > With regards to solving problems without the use of force, it can be done. There are plenty of levers that can be used against Russia, the fact that its economy is in such a state only adds to that. You should also check up on historical acts of not killing people to see that they can bring about quite substantial victories. Researching Ghandi, who probably quite liked India even though he didn’t kill people, might be a good start. Several things: [ol] [li] **Wouldn’t that be “Gandhi?”** - Pretty sure that the “H” was further along in his name.Also, you should probably read a history book or two as India’s independence came because the UK was unable to afford its empire, not due to any non-violent protesting. The British could have locked up Gandhi and kept on going into the 50’s or 60’s if they could have afforded to do so.[/li][li] **I have no clue that there won’t be a shooting war in the Ukraine** - I don’t have a crystal ball and neither do you. If you do, then you should have probably spotted the Russian invasion of Crimea and called a few weeks sooner.[/li][li]Please feel free to demonstrate a major international issue that has been resolved peacefully in the last 150 years on the scale of the current imbroglio between Russia and Ukraine. Please also demonstrate a military invasion which has be peacefully turned back during that same time period.[/li][/ol] Anyway, you gave your opinion of the situation and I don’t see any merit in it. Again, if Ukraine wants Western assistance then they should demonstrate why that assistance won’t simply be flushed down the drain. If not, then I wish them good luck in rejoining the failing Russian empire. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 12:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2114 "2014-03-31T00:07:09Z")
**NFBW** : Answers can be found in your pit thread. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2115 "2014-03-31T05:21:29Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > **NFBW** : Answers can be found in your pit thread. Who’s answers? Well anyway here’s an answer: On 03-03-2014 at 04:23 PM RickJay? Oh, so allegedly there might be a referendum on independence. But as of today, Crimea is still part of Ukraine; so why are there Russian soldiers there, and would Ukraine not be justified in using force to make them leave? Ukraine would have been justified in using force if it had a legitimate central government to command the Ukrainian military on what to do. Violent thugs overthrew the government in Kiev so the command and control was lost. The facts are that the Ukraine military did not use force to make the Pro-Russia self-defense forces and Russian forces leave. So the Pro-Russia military won what could have been a war but wasn’t. It appears Ukraine surrendered Crimea without a fight. Its their problem they lost it. Remember they were celebrating the demise of Putin and the pro-Russian people living in Eastern Kiev and Crimea. They didn’t laugh long in Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 5:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2116 "2014-03-31T05:40:24Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > He’s driving Eastern Europeans, including Ukrainians, _closer_ to The West, not pulling them closer to him. This will prove to have been a mistake for him. John Mace would have to be correct in his first statement in order to be correct about the second. Instead he is wrong on both counts. > [@](#): > > Protestors supporting Russia’s intervention in Crimea have clashed with police at rallies across the Ukraine, as U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry and Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov met in Paris in another bid to calm tensions. > > In Donetsk, pro-Moscow protesters stormed the railway station and were blocking trains to Kiev and Lviv. > > At a demonstration in Kharkiv today there were banners urging ‘Russia -Save us’, and pleading for a referendum on joining Moscow. > > Read more: [Pro-Russian activists rally across Ukraine and clash with police | Daily Mail Online](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2592899/Pro-Russian-activists-rally-Ukraine-clash-police-John-Kerry-meets-Putins-foreign-minister-Paris-bid-calm-tensions.html#ixzz2xW2AhNHw) Isn’t protest, including violent protest how government decisions are now made for the central government of Ukraine? Freedom of expression, right? Mace does not appear to have a handle of what is happening in Ukraine. When The Ukraine Legislators joined the violent protest to change the direction of the government by overthrowing the elected leader they begged pro-Russian forces to organize and protest. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2117 "2014-03-31T05:51:50Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by NotfooledbyW (Post 17159556) Just wondering. If a Russian military officer or serviceman leaves Moscow on a plane as a Russian citizen then arrives in Crimea at an airport run by the Autonomous Republic of Crimea… On 03-03-2014 at 05:09 PM RickJay replied: > [@](#): > > I’ve never heard of such a country. My country recognizes no such place. Do they have an embassy here? They have an embassy in your country now don’t they? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2118 "2014-03-31T06:06:06Z")
On 03-23-2014 at 01:02 PM Tomndebb posted this: > [@](#): > > One aspect of this discussion that has gotten very little play in the various SDMB threads is demonstrated on these maps from an article published before the government change and Russian actions. > > [http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ines-protests/](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ines-protests/) > > A second aspect regarding Putin’s motives would be that the agricultural map of Ukraine closely approximates the ethnic map, and Russia could seriously benefit from “owning” the Ukrainian bread basket, (that some agricultural experts rate as better than the U.S. bread basket, having deeper and richer topsoil). > > [http://biomodel.info/training-packag...ltural-zoning/](http://biomodel.info/training-packag...ltural-zoning/) Its not all “Putin’s Motives” when you go in depth for more analysis: > [@](#): > > Ukraine and a Tectonic Shift in Heartland Power, The USA Russia Pipeline Wars - Mar 22, 2010 - 06:09 AM GMT - By: F\_William\_Engdahl > Diamond Rated - Best Financial Markets Analysis Article Part I: **The Geopolitical significance of Ukraine today** > A decisive vote against NATO - On February 14 Ukraine’s Election Commission declared Viktor Yanukovych the winner in that embattled country’s Presidential runoff vote, defeating former Prime Minister and Orange Revolution instigator Yulia Tymoshenko. Contrary to the positive spin Washington is trying to put on the events, they mark the definitive death of Ukraine’s much-touted “Orange Revolution.“ An excerpt from the above Mar 22, 2010 - 06:09 AM GMT report: > [@](#): > > The eastern part of Ukraine bordering Russia is home to more than 15 million ethnic Russians and remains literally the bread basket of eastern Europe, with some of the richest soil on earth. In 2009 Ukraine was the world’s third largest grain exporter after the USA and EU, and ahead of Russia and Canada.[1] Ukraine’s famous black soil, chornozem, is considered the most fertile in the world, and covers two-thirds of Ukraine.[2] The area around the rivers Dnieper and Dniester is the only place in the world where the width of the so-called ‘sweet’ black soil reaches 500 km. This soil is exceptional in providing very high quality harvests and belongs to the national wealth. Western agribusiness companies such as Monsanto, Cargill, ADM and Kraft Foods are reportedly salivating over the prospect of an end to the internal Ukrainian political stalemate in hopes of exploiting these resources. [3] > > The Ukrainian Donetsk region in the eastern Donets Basin or Donbas is the political base of newly elected President Yanukovych. It is the most populous region of Ukraine and the center of its coal, steel and metallurgy industries, science centers and universities. Ukraine’s Donbas contains an estimated 109 billion tons of coal as well as oil and gas. > > Overall, Ukraine is one of the richest regions in all Europe for natural resources including granite, graphite, and salts. It provides a rich source for metallurgical, porcelain, chemical industries, for production of ceramics and building materials. [4] > > In short, capture of the Ukraine in 2004 was a prize of strategic geopolitical importance for Washington in its bid for what the Pentagon terms ‘Full Spectrum Dominance’—control of the entire planet: land, air, oceans, space and outerspace. As the British father of geopolitics, Sir Halford Mackinder wrote in his seminal 1919 book, Democratic Ideals and Reality, > > Who rules East Europe commands the Heartland: > Who rules the Heartland commands the World-Island: > Who rules the World-Island commands the World.5 > > For Mackinder, the Heartland integrally included Ukraine and Russia. By chopping off Ukraine from Russia in a de facto US-led coup called the Orange Revolution, Washington came a giant step nearer to a complete domination not only of Russia and the Heartland, but also of all Eurasia, including what would then become an encircled China. No wonder that the Bush-Cheney administration invested so much energy to install their man, Yushchenko, as President and de facto dictator. His task was to bring Ukraine into NATO. What he did for his countrymen was clearly of no concern to the Bush planners. > > Yushchenko almost succeeded but for the ill-conceived adventure of Georgia’s hand-picked Rose Revolution President, Mikhail Saakashvili in August 2008, sending troops to reclaim the seccessionist region of South Ossetia and Abkhazia for Georgia just weeks before NATO ministers would vote on Ukrainian and Georgian NATO membership. The swift Russian military response in stopping the Georgian attack and routing Saakashvili’s rag-tag forces also stopped dead any chance that Germany or other NATO countries would OK NATO membership, and with it the pledge to come to the defense of either Georgia or Ukraine in a war against Russia. [6] [http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article18073.html](http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article18073.html) KEY STATEMENT: Western agribusiness companies such as Monsanto, Cargill, ADM and Kraft Foods are reportedly \*\*salivating over the prospect \*\*of an end to the internal Ukrainian political stalemate in hopes of exploiting these resources. [3] ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2119 "2014-03-31T10:44:10Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > KEY STATEMENT: Western agribusiness companies such as Monsanto, Cargill, ADM and Kraft Foods are reportedly \*\*salivating over the prospect \*\*of an end to the internal Ukrainian political stalemate in hopes of exploiting these resources. [3] Ahhh! So your big defense of Russia in this thread has merely been patriotic support for American companies who will get better bargains if they deal with Russia than if they deal with Ukraine. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2014, 11:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2120 "2014-03-31T11:10:17Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Ahhh! So your big defense of Russia in this thread has merely been patriotic support for American companies who will get better bargains if they deal with Russia than if they deal with Ukraine. 😉 He’s always been a fan of countries taking over other countries with beneficial consequences for American corporations. Can’t stop talking about it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=105) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=107)