# Russia has invaded Ukraine. How will the West respond? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [February 28, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513 "2014-02-28T15:06:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 109
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2161 "2014-04-01T14:49:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > For a bunch of Fascist Nationalists, they sure are peaceful, aren’t they? Funny, that. It is interesting to not that Ukrainian Jews are apparently not nearly as concerned abut “fascists” in Ukraine as Putin and his foreign apologists are. > **[Ukrainian Jews slam Putin in full-page ad in New York Times - Jewish...](https://www.jta.org/2014/03/27/global/ukrainian-jews-slam-putin-in-full-page-ad-in-new-york-times)** > > Leading Ukrainian Jews took out a full-page advertisement in The New York Times slamming Russian President Vladimir Putin for maligning the treatment of Jews in Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2162 "2014-04-01T14:55:44Z")
> [@XT](#): > > From Putin’s, ah, lips to your keyboard. At least when I’m posting opinion pieces I’m making it clear they ARE opinions. As with other posters, you nitpick out one thing in order to dismiss the entire opinion, while conversely you swallow any propaganda Putin et al want to spew out as if it’s gospel…and don’t understand why some people are laughing at you, or why so many 'dopers have been hospitalized for eye strain do to rollage in this and other threads. I think we are getting the the point that the Surgeon General needs to issue a warning…maybe as a permanent signature or something. Do you think any Western military power would have sat back and done nothing while its uniformed forces were under heavy artillery attack? You should expect your opinion writers to stick to the basic truths that are known to undergird an opinion. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2163 "2014-04-01T15:11:43Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Do you think any Western military power would have sat back and done nothing while its uniformed forces were under heavy artillery attack? You should expect your opinion writers to stick to the basic truths that are known to undergird an opinion. Well, that’s YOUR opinion of events, heavily tinged by the Kool-Aid you’ve obviously been guzzling…and by the Russian view point which you have on everything. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2164 "2014-04-01T15:36:19Z")
> [@Batistuta](#): > > Also, do you realise that if Ukraine had done what most countries do when they’re invaded, we’d be looking at thousands of dead people already? The fact that the Ukrainian government’s response has been peaceful does not make Putin’s actions any less serious Likewise Bush and Blair could have followed Putin and de Villepin’s advice, and mine, (I wrote to the White House) to allow the inspectors time to finish there work. That would achieve the security objective and most importantly it would have been achieved peacefully. Do you object to that peaceful outcome. Crimea was in fact done in reaction to a rapidly unfolding event in Kiev which led to a second event in Crimea. That second event was in reaction to the first event in Kiev and it sparked a move for Crimea to separate ties from Ukraine. The invasion of Russian troops was on the invitation of Crimeans. If that invitation were accepted at the expensing if Crimean and Ukrainian injuries on some significant scale I certainly would oppose it but would support a UN resolution that would work something out diplomatically. As it turns out It worked itself out diplomatically and I have no quarrel with the de facto acceptance that Crimea is reunited with Russia. I believe the move will long term help to stabilize the region and one proof of that is Ukrainian police shot and killed a top right wing nut job leader. They are paying attention to the problem that many ostriches here maintain does not exist. ---
**Author:** ![Batistuta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@Batistuta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batistuta)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2165 "2014-04-01T15:57:12Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Likewise Bush and Blair could have followed Putin and de Villepin’s advice, and mine, (I wrote to the White House) to allow the inspectors time to finish there work. That would achieve the security objective and most importantly it would have been achieved peacefully. Do you object to that peaceful outcome. How many times do I have to say that I protested against the Iraq war? How many times do we have to tell you that two wrongs don’t make a right? How many times do you have to be told that the west’s actions in Iraq do not justify Russia’s actions in Crimea? > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > If that invitation were accepted at the expensing if Crimean and Ukrainian injuries on some significant scale I certainly would oppose it OK. So if the Ukrainian army had responded to Russian actions with force (they’d have been justified to do so under international law) and we now had a war in our hands, Russia’s invasion would have been wrong? Putin’s actions were _casus belli_, only the restraint of the Ukrainian armed forces has prevented large-scale inter-state violence. > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > As it turns out It worked itself out diplomatically and I have no quarrel with the de facto acceptance that Crimea is reunited with Russia. . No it didn’t. As long as just a dozen countries in the entire world support Crimea’s status within Russia, the issue cannot be considered to have “worked itself out diplomatically”. Crimea’s status today is about as stable as Abkhazia’s or Northern Cyprus’ ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2166 "2014-04-01T18:31:32Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Well, that’s YOUR opinion of events, heavily tinged by the Kool-Aid you’ve obviously been guzzling…and by the Russian view point which you have on everything. Check the facts and the EU Commissioned report that cost $15 million And found Russia justified in reacting to the Georgian ambush and full scale assault on innocent civilians. But anyone uninformed enough to support the Invasion of Iraq will also not likely know what happened in South Ossetia in 2008. The desire to be informed must come from within. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2167 "2014-04-01T18:37:03Z")
> [@Batistuta](#): > > As long as just a dozen countries in the entire world support Crimea’s status within Russia, the issue cannot be considered to have “worked itself out diplomatically”. Crimea’s status today is about as stable as Abkhazia’s or Northern Cyprus’ Sorry. It’s worked out. diplomats have moved on to what happens in the rest Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2168 "2014-04-01T18:37:10Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Check the facts and the EU Commissioned report that cost $15 million > And found Russia justified in reacting to the Georgian ambush and full scale assault on innocent civilians. But anyone uninformed enough to support the Invasion of Iraq will also not likely know what happened in South Ossetia in 2008. The desire to be informed must come from within. Sometimes it’s almost like talking to some sort of alien trying to talk to you. Here, let me break it down for you. Which part of ‘The 2008 invasion of Georgia sharply increased the popularity of Dmitri Medvedev, who was filling in as president for Putin’ do you dispute? Because that was the nitpick you had with the opinion cite. Are you claiming that Dmitri Medvedev’s popularity didn’t increase? That it did but had nothing to do with Russia’s invasion of Georgia and basically forcing the Georgian’s to back down? And please, for the love of small furry animals, SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IRAQ ALREADY. I know that it’s sometimes hard to get through to you, but this thread ISN’T FUCKING ABOUT IRAQ. It has ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH IRAQ. Would you kindly SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IRAQ ALREADY? ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2169 "2014-04-01T18:39:43Z")
> [@Batistuta](#): > > Also, do you realise that if Ukraine had done what most countries do when they’re invaded, we’d be looking at thousands of dead people already? The fact that the Ukrainian government’s response has been peaceful does not make Putin’s actions any less serious Of course it was peaceful. Crimea invited the Russians in, remember? That’s the line you’re fighting against. If anything, that’s more ammo for him. Ukraine must’ve wanted it because they didn’t resist. Also, she was wearing a short skirt, and who hangs out next to Russia if they don’t want to be invaded? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2170 "2014-04-01T20:38:21Z")
[**Ukraine agrees to host NATO war games**](http://news.yahoo.com/russian-pm-medvedev-visits-crimea-reports-075219445.html?soc_src=mediacontentsharebuttons) > [@](#): > > Kiev (AFP) - Ukraine’s parliament on Tuesday approved a series of joint military exercises with NATO countries that would put US troops in direct proximity to Russian forces in the annexed Crimea peninsula. > > “This is a good opportunity to develop our armed forces,” acting defence minister Mykhailo Koval told Verkhovna Rada lawmakers ahead of the 235-0 vote. > > The decision came as NATO foreign ministers gathered in Brussels for a two-day meeting dominated by concern over the recent buildup of Russian forces near Crimea that US officials estimate had at one point reached about 40,000 troops. > > NATO has sought to reinforce its eastern frontier after Russia’s takeover of Ukraine’s Black Sea peninsula and amid concerns about Kremlin’s emboldened foreign policy. > > Russia on Monday reported pulling back a battalion of about 500 to 700 soldiers from the border region in a move that German Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier called “a small sign that the situation is becoming less tense”. > > Ukraine is not a NATO member and its new Western-backed leaders have vowed not to push for closer relations with the Brussels-based military alliance – a bloc that has been viewed with deep mistrust by Moscow since the Cold War. > > But the ex-Soviet nation did form a “distinctive partnership” with the Alliance in 1997 and has been staging joint exercises with its state members ever since. > > The exercises approved on Tuesday would see Ukraine conduct two sets of military exercises with the United States this summer – Rapid Trident and Sea Breeze – that have prompted disquiet in Russia in previous years. [**Russia wants war!**](http://1389blog.com/pix/Russia-wants-war-look-how-close-they-put-their-country-to-our-military-bases.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2171 "2014-04-01T20:45:44Z")
> [@Batistuta](#): > > Putin’s speeches are so easy to pick apart, it’s a shame that there are so many people - in Russia and abroad - willing to stand by his every word. I’ll be genuinely worried if Putin, much like Castro or Chavez before him, becomes popular among left-wingers in the West. FWIW, I haven’t met any left-wingers out here in southern California – I tend to hang with academics and scientists but also a few labor-union types – who think Putin is anything but a threat. (Castro lost a lot of his appeal when Cuban troops were abroad in adventures in Angola. Liberals have any number of faults, but they generally don’t like military aggression.) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2172 "2014-04-01T20:56:53Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > [**Ukraine agrees to host NATO war games**](http://news.yahoo.com/russian-pm-medvedev-visits-crimea-reports-075219445.html?soc_src=mediacontentsharebuttons) > > [**Russia wants war!**](http://1389blog.com/pix/Russia-wants-war-look-how-close-they-put-their-country-to-our-military-bases.jpg) Yeah, we should definitely not allowed a lot of those former Soviet republics and eastern bloc countries to run to us for protection once the old Soviet Union folded, because that makes the current Russian government tense (that they won’t be able to force them back into the fold no doubt). I mean, it’s only been, what, 20+ years since the Soviets folded…?..the West is certainly poised to invade any time now. We were just waiting for them to get strong again, to make it sporting and all. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2173 "2014-04-01T21:28:09Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Yeah, we should definitely not allowed a lot of those former Soviet republics and eastern bloc countries to run to us for protection once the old Soviet Union folded, because that makes the current Russian government tense (that they won’t be able to force them back into the fold no doubt). I mean, it’s only been, what, 20+ years since the Soviets folded…?..the West is certainly poised to invade any time now. We were just waiting for them to get strong again, to make it sporting and all. 😛 Must say, the old emoticons would have made you post silly enough w/out any attempt at whatever humor you strive for…but now, in pink?! Funny as shit if unintentional. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2174 "2014-04-01T21:53:03Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Sometimes it’s almost like talking to some sort of alien trying to talk to you. Here, let me break it down for you. Which part of ‘The 2008 invasion of Georgia sharply increased the popularity of Dmitri Medvedev, who was filling in as president for Putin’ do you dispute? Because that was the nitpick you had with the opinion cite. Are you claiming that Dmitri Medvedev’s popularity didn’t increase? That it did but had nothing to do with Russia’s invasion of Georgia and basically forcing the Georgian’s to back down? > > And please, for the love of small furry animals, SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IRAQ ALREADY. I know that it’s sometimes hard to get through to you, but this thread ISN’T FUCKING ABOUT IRAQ. It has ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH IRAQ. Would you kindly SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT IRAQ ALREADY? I’m talking about your dishonestly biased source on the 2008 matter between Russia and Georgia. You brought that bias here. Of course it made Medvedev popular to defend Russian troops under attack by a US backed nutjobs with big time Weapond systems and his own little western fed army. Why wouldn’t it be popular to defend Russian troops under attack? ---
**Author:** ![Falesh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Falesh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Falesh)\ **Post date:** [April 1, 2014, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2175 "2014-04-01T23:40:38Z")
> [@marshmallow](#): > > Of course it was peaceful. Crimea invited the Russians in, remember? That’s the line you’re fighting against. If anything, that’s more ammo for him. Ukraine must’ve wanted it because they didn’t resist. Also, she was wearing a short skirt, and who hangs out next to Russia if they don’t want to be invaded? The Ukrainian military in Crimea didn’t invite the Russians in. They peacefully resisted the Russians taking over their bases for some time until they inevitably fell. I’m still amazed that none of those confrontations spiraled out of control, especially after a Ukrainian officer was killed. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2176 "2014-04-02T00:13:42Z")
[Quote=RedFury] [**Russia wants war!**](http://1389blog.com/pix/Russia-wants-war-look-how-close-they-put-their-country-to-our-military-bases.jpg) [/QUOTE] That’s funny, but the reality is that countries next to Russia bizarrely want NATO bases. Whyever could that be? After all, if they aren’t oppressing a Russian minority, what have they to fear? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2177 "2014-04-02T00:14:12Z")
> [@Falesh](#): > > The Ukrainian military in Crimea didn’t invite the Russians in. They peacefully resisted the Russians taking over their bases for some time until they inevitably fell. I’m still amazed that none of those confrontations spiraled out of control, especially after a Ukrainian officer was killed. The Ukraine military stationed in Crimea suddenly found themselves on Independent Crimean soil the moment Yanukivuch was violently and unconstitutionally removed from office. Putting their weapons down was indeed a good move during a constitutional crisis. Good for them. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2178 "2014-04-02T00:17:49Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > The Ukraine military stationed in Crimea suddenly found themselves on Independent Crimean soil the moment Yanukivuch was violently and unconstitutionally removed from office… That’s not technically true. It’s also idiotic but untrue first. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2179 "2014-04-02T00:35:19Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > That’s funny, but the reality is that countries next to Russia bizarrely want NATO bases. Whyever could that be? After all, if they aren’t oppressing a Russian minority, what have they to fear? Nothing. Other than empty Western Promises from a broken economy. Such is propaganda. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2014, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2180 "2014-04-02T00:40:55Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Well, that’s YOUR opinion of events, heavily tinged by the Kool-Aid you’ve obviously been guzzling…and by the Russian view point which you have on everything. You’ve got a lot of nerve accusing others of guzzling Kool-Aid. That is not my opinion of events. It is the finding of an EU Commission that investigated and found Russia to be justified to respond. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=108) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=110)