# Russia has invaded Ukraine. How will the West respond? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [February 28, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513 "2014-02-28T15:06:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 131
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2601 "2014-04-19T19:34:26Z")
[Kiev is declaring an Easter truce in the East.](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27086511) ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2602 "2014-04-19T19:53:28Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > **DSeid** , if I am interpreting BB and NFbW responses to me correctly, neither of them agree with RedFury that this is some outrageous move but both seem happy for some reason that it’s going to be hard to enforce. > > And the lack of deep sea warm ports is merely Russia’s unfortunate geography, not stupidity. Well, before they annexed Crimea, of course. “All Russians are terrorists. Or lean that way.” Which is why we won’t let any of them in-- though they constitute 30% of the country. No bigotry there, not at all. Of course, this should surprise no one when **the coup leaders** – extremely well exposed by now – _first move_, was to ban Russian as an alternate official language. No bigotry there, no siree. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2603 "2014-04-19T20:00:06Z")
Nothing will change in the US until the people take their government back. War with Russia is nearly inevitable because the neocons want to take over Russia. They will never succeed and possibly cause the demise of their own politically controlled state in the process. WW-III? In the making. But as I said before there’ll be no winners. We all lose. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2604 "2014-04-19T20:08:05Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > RedFury, I just warned you a day or so ago to throttle it back. Yet in this post you appear to be calling a poster a xenophobe and in your post of 5:21 you are backdoor insulting another poster with that ‘idiocy’ line. > > This is a warning. Further such posts will earn more. It is possible to discuss even heated issues without resorting to derision and insults. I encourage you to do so. Respect you as a moderator. Not so much your biases. Want to stiffle my speech? 14 years here and it’s still the same shit. Take and not give? Go right ahead. It’s within your powers. \*Not worth a ATMB thread as nothing is going to change here --and I mean the SDMB. Bottom line, as pro-US as any other American site out there – right hand to heart. \ ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2605 "2014-04-19T20:11:50Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > “All Russians are terrorists. Or lean that way.” Which is why we won’t let any of them in-- though they constitute 30% of the country. No bigotry there, not at all… Russian citizens are 30% of the country of Ukraine? Who knew? I make no argument that there is no bigotry in Ukraine any more than I would make the argument that there is no bigotry in the United States. How silly it would be to claim either. The fact that bigotry exists however has nothing to do with the reasonableness or unreasonableness of restricting the travel into your country of foreign nationals from a hostile state during a time of increased tension and expectation of terrorist acts to be committed by foreign agents. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2606 "2014-04-19T20:19:00Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > “All Russians are terrorists. Or lean that way.” Which is why we won’t let any of them in-- though they constitute 30% of the country. No bigotry there, not at all. > > Of course, this should surprise no one when **the coup leaders** – extremely well exposed by now – _first move_, was to ban Russian as an alternate official language. No bigotry there, no siree. Notice that when I directly asked your fellow travelers, neither chose to back up your stance on the Russian citizen entry ban. Are they just American flag wavers too now? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2607 "2014-04-19T21:40:50Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Russian citizens are 30% of the country of Ukraine? Who knew? > > I make no argument that there is no bigotry in Ukraine any more than I would make the argument that there is no bigotry in the United States. How silly it would be to claim either. The fact that bigotry exists however has nothing to do with the reasonableness or unreasonableness of restricting the travel into your country of foreign nationals from a hostile state during a time of increased tension and expectation of terrorist acts to be committed by foreign agents. > [@CarnalK](#): > > Notice that when I directly asked your fellow travelers, neither chose to back up your stance on the Russian citizen entry ban. Are they just American flag wavers too now? Sorry I can’t respond under threat of truth or “being a jerk.” Afraid you’ll have to find (your own) satisfactory answers. Shouldn’t be hard. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2608 "2014-04-19T21:45:16Z")
Shouldn’t be hard to respond without being a jerk but maybe that’s just me. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2609 "2014-04-19T21:48:32Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Shouldn’t be hard to respond without being a jerk but maybe that’s just me. Maybe. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 19, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2610 "2014-04-19T21:59:54Z")
Well, I guess I just don’t understand why you are in “Great Debates” if you don’t want to debate. There’s a tangential [BBQ Pit thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=721219) you could go in and “speak truth” or you could make your own. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2611 "2014-04-20T01:28:56Z")
I’m for OSCE coming out the persuasion winner here with no bloodshed and more autonomy for Russian speaking majority regions. That is what is right and fair. > [@](#): > > After a meeting in the Ukrainian capital with diplomats from the four parties to the Geneva accord, Swiss envoy Christian Schoenenberger, whose country is chair of the OSCE, said its monitors had spoken to several activists: “For the time being the political will is not there to move out,” he said. > > “That’s the task of the monitors, to create this political will, inform the people, so eventually they will understand that the best option for them is to move out,” he told reporters. Ukraine Calls ‘Easter Truce’ As Washington Urges Moscow To Rein In Separatists Reuters04/19/14 09:22 AM ET > **[Ukraine Calls Easter Truce](https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ukraine-easter-truce_n_5178321)** > > Ukraine Calls Easter Truce Ukraine had little choice but to call a truce and Washington needs to accept that Moscow can’t reign in Ukrainian citizens that are not under Moscow’s control. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2612 "2014-04-20T01:35:20Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Notice that when I directly asked your fellow travelers, neither chose to back up your stance on the Russian citizen entry ban. Are they just American flag wavers too now? I am proud to be an Anerican flag waver if that helps. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2613 "2014-04-20T01:53:17Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > I’m for OSCE coming out the persuasion winner here with no bloodshed and more autonomy for Russian speaking majority regions. Since the policy of the Russian government was that Ukrainians were Russians and that there was no such thing as the Ukrainian language until they were forced to do so by the independence of the Ukraine, how do you define who is a “Russian speaker” vs. who is a “Ukrainian speaker”. Should the “Sicilian speakers” and “Neopolitan speakers” of Italy be given more autonomy? Is that fair and right? Should the “Southern speakers” of the United States be given more autonomy? Is that fair and right? If not, please explain the intellectual consistency in your positions. I obviously assume that you feel the portions of California, Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, and New York City with large numbers of Spanish speakers deserve vastly more autonomy then they have right now. If not, please explain why your beliefs aren’t immensely hypocritical since Latinos have faced vastly more racism and discrimination in the US than “Russian” speakers of the Ukraine? Thanks in advance. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2614 "2014-04-20T02:05:44Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Nothing will change in the US until the people take their government back. > > War with Russia is nearly inevitable because the neocons want to take over Russia. You think the “neocons” control the US? :dubious: Please tell us, in your own words, not some link to someone else’s words, who are the “neocons” and show me how they supposedly control the US? I ask, because the people generally classified as “neocons” have disappeared since Bush and Cheney vacated the White House? Beyond that, I’ve never heard of any “neocons” who’ve spoken of wanting to “take over” Russia. If anything, I remember “neocons” agreeing when Bush claimed he “looked into” Putin’s soul and approving of some of the harsher actions Putin took against “Islamic extremists”. So, please give some quotes from “neocons” who want to “take over Russia” and name some “neocons” within the administration? Thanks in advance. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2615 "2014-04-20T13:07:21Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Did Putin (and it seems likely that he thinks for the Russian government in decisions) assume that there was no chance Ukraine would go West last June so there was no _need_ for Tartus? There are not 2 million Russians living in the surrounding area of Tartus. Giving up Tartus would have to mean that Russia was leaning toward giving up on Assad being able to stay in power. Extricating Russia from an alignment with a murderous dictator should be seen as a positive development in other capitols of the world. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2616 "2014-04-20T13:44:37Z")
> [@](#): > > In comments to be broadcast on US television on Sunday, the Ukrainian prime minister, Arseniy Yatsenyuk, lashed out at the Russian president, Vladimir Putin – whom Kiev and Washington accuse of masterminding the insurgency in Ukraine – for having a “dream to restore the Soviet Union”. > > Yatsenyuk, speaking to NBC’s Meet the Press, also condemned those who reportedly handed out pamphlets demanding Jews register or be expelled in the east of Ukraine as “bastards” who should be brought to justice. And so it goes on … the puppet is to speak to the taxpayers funding this tomfoolery. It’s such a rare and fascinating \*real-time \*case study of how the US State Department - together with other agencies - have operated over the past 50 years or so, including the bogus leaflet! Proper old skool!! Of course you don’t let the fact get in the way that the local Chief Rabbi identified it as bullshit two days ago. All brought to you by compliant mainstream US media. #yourtaxdollarsatwork ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2617 "2014-04-20T13:55:47Z")
ISTM that Yatsenyuk’s comment paraphrased there does not presume that the leaflet was anything other than a bastard move by whoever did it. And compliant MSN did report your fact: > [@](#): > > The chief rabbi said the Jewish community was shocked after anti-Semitic leaflets were posted in Donetsk in eastern Ukraine, though he dismissed claims that Jews were being targeted. [http://news.msn.com/world/video?videoid=8df63cc9-b370-aa55-1969-a022045c72b2&ap=False](http://news.msn.com/world/video?videoid=8df63cc9-b370-aa55-1969-a022045c72b2&ap=False) But don’t let any of that get in the way of the narrative you’ve decided on. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2618 "2014-04-20T14:07:47Z")
:eek: > [@CarnalK](#): > > ISTM that Yatsenyuk’s comment paraphrased there does not presume that the leaflet was anything other than a bastard move by whoever did it. And compliant MSN did report your fact: > > [http://news.msn.com/world/video?videoid=8df63cc9-b370-aa55-1969-a022045c72b2&ap=False](http://news.msn.com/world/video?videoid=8df63cc9-b370-aa55-1969-a022045c72b2&ap=False) > But don’t let any of that get in the way of the narrative you’ve decided on. Was the Rabbi’s statement made clear on Meet the Press? ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2619 "2014-04-20T14:11:30Z")
**CarnalK** - go your own way feller. I wish you well with your geo-poltical journey, though we won’t be interacting again ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 20, 2014, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2620 "2014-04-20T14:32:38Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > :eek: > > Was the Rabbi’s statement made clear on Meet the Press? I was just addressing the compliant media bit and RedFury seems to have a particular hate-on for MSN so that’s why I chose it. I didn’t watch Meet the Press and I suspect neither did BrokenBriton. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=130) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=132)