# Russia has invaded Ukraine. How will the West respond? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [February 28, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513 "2014-02-28T15:06:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 136
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2701 "2014-04-25T12:19:48Z")
Elections aren’t going to cut it for long when a chunk of the country wants a referendum to underpin a separation process. Someone really needs to talk down the ultra right-wing headcases who still think the east will accept rule from Kiev - those people know this is their one big chance to be restored to the bosom of mother Russia. Instead, the Ultra’s are being shaped into attack dogs. Yay USA. #nicetanjoe ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2702 "2014-04-25T12:56:12Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > – bolding mine. > > Is this what you speak of: > > [**Ukraine: Out of Control**](http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2014/04/24/ukraine-out-of-control/) Not that specifically, no. > [@RedFury](#): > > I should hope not. Rather embarrassing don’t you think? Or is there _anything_ the US can do that would be embarrassing? Bueller? Sure, mistakes like that are embarassing for the State Department. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2703 "2014-04-25T14:49:11Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Good read What a fantastic read! You are such a good source for the screwiest bloggers in the world. You truly demonstrate how trusting the “blogosphere” probably makes you as completely uninformed as trusting the “main stream media”. Anyway let’s tear apart your stupid blog post from a guy whose biggest accomplishments in life are writing blog posts for [fff.org](http://fff.org): > [@](#): > > Those towns are in eastern Ukraine. President Obama says the “military option” — war, that is — is not on the table in his effort to oppose Russia in the Ukraine crisis… A critical thinker probably would have stopped his blog post at this point but no he presses on into the hypothetical because his whole life is a hypothetical. Like the fact that he is a hypothetical journalist. > [@](#): > > Obama has dispatched 600 soldiers to Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia. The U.S. Navy has ships present in the Black Sea, an understandably sensitive matter for Russia, which long has had a naval base in Crimea. That may not sound like a large force, but it takes only one soldier to be a tripwire for greater U.S. involvement in this volatile region. Americans should be uneasy with this recklessness on Obama’s part. The U.S. Navy always has ships in the Black Sea of a certain tonnage and for up to 3 weeks at a time. 600 soldiers in NATO countries (it only take one!) but if Russia attacks a single NATO country then we’ll be in a war with Russia regardless of whether our soldiers were involved in the initial fighting. > [@](#): > > Those four former members of the defunct Soviet bloc are now members of NATO, the very active alliance established after World War II ostensibly to keep the Red Army out of Western Europe. One might have expected NATO to disappear along with the Soviet Union, but something happened on the way to the post-Cold War world. The so-called defensive alliance not only remained in existence; it moved aggressively eastward toward Russia by inducting former Soviet allies and republics as members. Aggressively letting nations join your club. What a stupid thing to say. That’s just like war! The Russians are just upset because the number of nations they can kick around keeps being reduced. They justify their whining with Gorbachev’s fantasy over what he was told while the only thing he has to blame is his poor diplomatic decisions. Too bad for them. Let the Western empire grow unabated! ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2704 "2014-04-25T17:34:46Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Elections aren’t going to cut it for long when a chunk of the country wants a referendum to underpin a separation process. > > Someone really needs to talk down the ultra right-wing headcases who still think the east will accept rule from Kiev - those people know this is their one big chance to be restored to the bosom of mother Russia. Instead, the Ultra’s are being shaped into attack dogs. Yay USA. > > #nicetanjoe Restored to the bosom of mother Russia? Seriously? At any rate the news reports are that the groups don’t necessarily trust Russia and are only going for independence. Of course since this is being orchestrated by Russia any new independent countries that would arise would fall under control of Moscow one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2705 "2014-04-25T19:02:42Z")
Ukrainian TV: schoolkids chanting “hang the Russians (separatists)”: > **['We just want to live normally'](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-europe-27122149)** > > The BBC meets a pro-Russian family living in a rural area of Ukraine, who say their support for Moscow does not mean they are separatists. Putin just will not accept Ukrainian military moving against civilians - if those civilians are ethnic Russians. John Kerry needs to tone this down, and he needs to stop inciting that half wit puppet. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2706 "2014-04-25T19:07:06Z")
Putin inciting the separatists is totally cool though. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2707 "2014-04-25T19:12:07Z")
FFS, look at the level of indoctrination of those schoolkids - right-wing propaganda has effectively dehumanised ethnic Russians already. The separatists are not in tanks trying to occupy a land in which (a) they are a tiny minority, (b) where they are not wanted, and © do not need a referendum on the future, especially given the hate rhetoric coming from politicians in _Kiev_. ---
**Author:** ![Batistuta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@Batistuta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batistuta)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2708 "2014-04-25T19:19:14Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Ukrainian TV: schoolkids chanting “hang the Russians (separatists)”: > [Ukraine: Pro-Russian family desperate for 'order' - BBC News](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27122149) Sorry, but the link you posted does not show schoolchildren chanting ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2709 "2014-04-25T19:19:43Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > The separatists are not in tanks trying to occupy a land in which (a) they are a tiny minority, (b) where they are not wanted, and (c) do not need a referendum on the future, especially given the hate rhetoric coming from politicians in _Kiev_. You seriously think that Ukrainians are a “tiny minority” in Eastern Ukraine? Let’s take Luhansk for example. Can you find out what percentage ethnic Ukrainians are in that area and cite it here? It should be fairly easy. Once you do that, look at Dnepropetrovsk. Then Donetskaya oblast. Come back and tell us what you found. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2710 "2014-04-25T19:30:44Z")
ok, fair point I’ll retract “tiny”. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2711 "2014-04-25T19:33:50Z")
> [@Batistuta](#): > > Sorry, but the link you posted does not show schoolchildren chanting It does: clue “Hang the Russians” ---
**Author:** ![Batistuta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@Batistuta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batistuta)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2712 "2014-04-25T19:37:15Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > It does: clue “Hang the Russians” Aha, sorry the video didn’t load at first so I had to go by the text :smack: Either way, that’s very flimsy evidence. It’s a very worrying incident, but it certainly does not give Russia the right to intervene in a foreign country. If these isolated incidents were to turn into outspread violence against the Russian minority, things would be different. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2713 "2014-04-25T19:47:09Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > ok, fair point I’ll retract “tiny”. How about retract “minority”? ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2714 "2014-04-25T19:48:09Z")
> [@Batistuta](#): > > If these isolated incidents were to turn into outspread violence against the Russian minority, things would be different. Wel, that’s what Putin says. Apart from the ‘minority’ part. It’s propaganda, as such it’s part of a strategy to dehumanise the ‘enemy’. This is not exactly a new concept. In recent times, reminiscent of the early stages of the Balkans. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2715 "2014-04-25T19:50:12Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > How about retract “minority”? Predominantly Russian speakers are 70/30. Apparently that’s enough for them to be “hanged”. What are you desperate to share with us? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2716 "2014-04-25T20:01:41Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Predominantly Russian speakers are 70/30. Apparently that’s enough for them to be “hanged”. “Russian speakers” is a red herring. Ethnic Russians are something around 30% in those regions. Ethnic Ukrainians are the majority. Yes, some Ukrainians speak Russian better than Ukrainian (especially after half a century of Soviet Union repressing the Ukrainian language). No, that doesn’t have to mean that they would want to separate from Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2717 "2014-04-25T20:06:38Z")
Native tongue is a red herring. Who knew? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2718 "2014-04-25T20:08:34Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Native tongue is a red herring. Who knew? People paying attention to this situation. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2719 "2014-04-25T20:10:24Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Native tongue is a red herring. Who knew? When discussing ethnicity, definitely. Most Scots are native English speakers. Yet they will probably vote to separate from UK. ---
**Author:** ![Batistuta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@Batistuta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batistuta)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2720 "2014-04-25T20:14:36Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > When discussing ethnicity, definitely. Most Scots are native English speakers. Yet they will probably vote to separate from UK. Same thing in Catalonia and the Basque Country. Particularly in regions where a national language has been imposed/encouraged for decades (both the Spanish regions and Ukraine are examples of that), language =/= belonging. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=135) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=137)