# Russia has invaded Ukraine. How will the West respond? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [February 28, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513 "2014-02-28T15:06:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 137
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2721 "2014-04-25T20:15:31Z")
Meanwhile, back to the right-wing propaganda of Ukrainian tv, the indoctrination of school children and the dehumanisation of ethnic Russians. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2722 "2014-04-25T20:20:30Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Meanwhile, back to the right-wing propaganda of Ukrainian tv, the indoctrination of school children and the dehumanisation of ethnic Russians. Too bad you don’t know Russian. The indoctrination in Russian news/editorial sources and the dehumanization of Ukrainians is appalling. I wouldn’t call the current Russian regime just “right-wing”. It is getting closer and closer to chauvinistic nationalism of fascism though. Hell, just the other day one of the prominent Russian “think-tank” directors wrote an editorial where he said (in response to comparisons of Crimea and Sudetenland) that Hitler was not that bad. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2723 "2014-04-25T20:25:59Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Predominantly Russian speakers are 70/30. Apparently that’s enough for them to be “hanged”. > > What are you desperate to share with us? Um, you do know that the majority of the population in Kiev speaks Russian, right? 😕 This is the same “Kiev” that the people in your link are complaining about. > [@](#): > > n the 2003 sociological survey, when the question ‘What language do you use in everyday life?’ was asked, 52% said ‘mostly Russian’, 32% ‘both Russian and Ukrainian in equal measure’, 14% ‘mostly Ukrainian’, and 4.3% ‘exclusively Ukrainian’ > **[Kyiv](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kiev#Demographics)** > > Kyiv (also Kiev)\[a\] is the capital and most populous city of Ukraine. It is in north-central Ukraine along the Dnieper River. As of 1 January 2022, its population was 2,952,301, making Kyiv the seventh-most populous city in Europe. Kyiv is an important industrial, scientific, educational, and cultural center in Eastern Europe. It is home to many high-tech industries, higher education institutions, and historical landmarks. The city has an extensive system of public transport and infrastruc Th... Presumably, they want to hang themselves, according to you? Or could it be you have no idea of what you are talking about? ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2724 "2014-04-25T20:56:00Z")
Um, I really try very hard to not get involved in the SDMB as the Aspergers level. Hence dipping in and out of this particular thread. Um. However, if you want to talk about ongoing indoctrination and dehumanisation, I’m all ears. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2725 "2014-04-25T21:05:02Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Um, I really try very hard to not get involved in the SDMB as the Aspergers level. Hence dipping in and out of this particular thread. Um. > > However, if you want to talk about ongoing indoctrination and dehumanisation, I’m all ears. So you’re saying you’d rather deal in irrational emotional appeals rather than facts? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2726 "2014-04-25T21:09:55Z")
[http://www.iri.org/news-events-press-center/news/iri-poll-majority-russian-speaking-citizens-ukraine-don’t-feel-threate](http://www.iri.org/news-events-press-center/news/iri-poll-majority-russian-speaking-citizens-ukraine-don%E2%80%99t-feel-threate) RI Poll: Majority of Russian-Speaking Citizens in Ukraine Don’t Feel Threatened; Majority Support Closer Ties with Europe ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2727 "2014-04-25T21:14:07Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > So you’re saying you’d rather deal in irrational emotional appeals rather than facts? Seems about the size of it. Reminds me of someone upthread who claimed a friend of his was hassled by evil Ukranians in Kiev for daring to speak Russian, as proof that Ukrainians were generally bigots. Again, an absurd-on-its-face claim, given that the majority of people - including of course Ukrainians - in Kiev regularly speak Russian. Ukrainians may be bigots or they may not be, but this is _one_ thing that they are most unlikely to be bigots _about_ … 😃 ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2728 "2014-04-25T21:56:22Z")
[Kerry’s statement yesterday](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/25/exclusive-putin-halts-all-talks-with-white-house.html) > [@](#): > > “For seven days, Russia has refused to take a single concrete step in the right direction,” Kerry scolded. “Not a single Russian official, not one, has publicly gone on television in Ukraine and called on the separatists to support the Geneva agreement, to support the stand-down, to give up their weapons, and get out of the Ukrainian buildings. They have not called on them to engage in that activity. “ > > “Instead, in plain sight, Russia continues to fund, coordinate, and fuel a heavily armed separatist movement in Donetsk,” Kerry accused. Kerry might reflect on the fact that the converse is equally valid. > [@](#): > > For seven days, the US has refused to take a single concrete step in the right direction. Not a single American official, not one, has publicly gone on television in Ukraine and called on the putschists to support the Geneva agreement, to support the stand-down, to give up their armed operations against the Eastern Ukrainians and to return to negotiation. They have not called on them to engage in that activity. > > Instead, in plain sight, the US continues to fund, coordinate, and fuel a heavily armed putsch in Kiev. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2729 "2014-04-25T22:02:43Z")
Here’s a good take on the whole affair: [**Special Report: How the U.S. made its Putin problem worse**](http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/18/us-ukraine-putin-diplomacy-special-repor-idUSBREA3H0OQ20140418) Smear away. Used to it after almost 14 years on this faux “progressive” US board. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2730 "2014-04-25T22:05:08Z")
Almost done at work…so **XT** and the rest of the “rah rah” crowd may get ready for further fun and derision…of facts. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2731 "2014-04-25T22:58:39Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Smear away. Used to it after almost 14 years on this faux “progressive” US board. Where’s “progressive” come in? Putin’s Russia is aggressive to it’s neighbors, suppresses free speech and a free press at home, panders to religious conservatives, oppresses gays, and uses terrorism as an excuse for extrajudicial detention and surveillance. All the stuff that people used to criticize Bush for, Putin is doing in spades. So how the hell is supporting Putin “progressive”? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2732 "2014-04-25T23:36:53Z")
> [@Batistuta](#): > > Yup. Hence the need for a free and fair election three weeks from now. They want more autonomy and federalism that will let them make their own trade deals. A national election does not resolve that. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2733 "2014-04-25T23:46:19Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Almost done at work…so **XT** and the rest of the “rah rah” crowd may get ready for further fun and derision…of facts. I’m going to interpret that as an accusation of lying. That’s against the rules. I’m giving you another warning. Improve your behavior. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2734 "2014-04-25T23:53:33Z")
For instance: Say we compare the attitude of world aggressors/interference & number of military ‘sites’ in the world: USA: [List of United States military bases](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_military_bases) Russia: [List of Russian military bases abroad](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_military_bases_abroad) For the more sagacious amongst you, one is not like the other. But mock/warn away. If it makes you feel better than dealing with facts. BTW, who the fuck asked the US to get between Russia & Ukraine? What the fuck business it of theirs? I mean could the two nations be geographically further away and isn’t the EU more than enough to handle their own bus? Other than their “Rulers Of The World” self-assigned mission of course. Then again, the US’ unipolar world is coming to an end. Too bad, so sad. Well, not really… ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2014, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2735 "2014-04-25T23:59:39Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > I’m going to interpret that as an accusation of lying. That’s against the rules. > > I’m giving you another warning. Improve your behavior. Almost 60 – no one gets to tell me what “I must improve.” One of the perks of old age. Do what you must and “interpret” things in any way you can to run me out of here after 14 years of posting the truth. Only way you’ll shut me down. Good job, **Jonathan, “The Hitman,” Chance**. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2736 "2014-04-26T00:05:12Z")
Improve _yourself_ dude & stop your witch-hunt against me or anyone who dares to differ from the USA’s famous “free speech” BS. There’s a laugh – and you are the joker proving it. Again. Improve _yourself_. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 12:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2737 "2014-04-26T00:08:31Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Almost 60 – no one gets to tell me what “I must improve.” One of the perks of old age. > > Do what you must and “interpret” things in any way you can to run me out of here after 14 years of posting the truth. > > Only way you’ll shut me down. > > Good job, **Jonathan, “The Hitman,” Chance**. Almost 60 you say. I bet you have fond memories of Nicaragua. Being able to bash the States without the ugly need to cheerlead for a ruthless autocrat. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2738 "2014-04-26T00:13:24Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > [http://www.iri.org/news-events-press-center/news/iri-poll-majority-russian-speaking-citizens-ukraine-don’t-feel-threate](http://www.iri.org/news-events-press-center/news/iri-poll-majority-russian-speaking-citizens-ukraine-don%E2%80%99t-feel-threate) > > RI Poll: Majority of Russian-Speaking Citizens in Ukraine Don’t Feel Threatened; Majority Support Closer Ties with Europe The poll was taken over a month ago > [@](#): > > • Data was collected throughout Ukraine (including Crimea) March 14–26, 2014, through face-to-face interviews at respondents’ home. And the polling agency is funded by the US; > [@](#): > > [http://www.usaid.gov/where-we-work/europe-and-eurasia/ukraine](http://www.usaid.gov/where-we-work/europe-and-eurasia/ukraine) Here is what they say on their web page: > [@](#): > > The United States Government maintains a strategic interest in helping Ukraine’s transition toward greater democracy and a sustainable free market economy. Over the last 20 years USAID has provided $1.8 billion in critical development assistance in support of the Ukrainian people. Much of this development assistance has helped Ukrainians experience increased political freedoms, stronger transparency guarantees, and more economic and social Strategic interest indeed. Damn near got the Ukrainian president kiled. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2739 "2014-04-26T00:26:35Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > They want more autonomy and federalism that will let them make their own trade deals. A national election does not resolve that. Nations would easily fall apart if every country gave in to separatist movements. Just because a group wants to fracture a nation in order to form its own nation doesn’t mean it should happen. ---
**Author:** ![Nobody](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/94ad74/32.png) [@Nobody](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nobody)\ **Post date:** [April 26, 2014, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2740 "2014-04-26T00:32:46Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Improve _yourself_ dude & stop your witch-hunt against me or anyone who dares to differ from the USA’s famous “free speech” BS. There’s a laugh – and you are the joker proving it. > > Again. Improve _yourself_. Ah yes, Russia. [home of free and independent media](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-17840134), [free and independent social media](http://www.theverge.com/2014/4/22/5638980/russias-largest-social-network-is-under-the-control-of-putins-allies), and [free of repression](http://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/fear-of-repression-looms-large-within-russian-federation-1.1770053). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=136) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=138)