# Russia has invaded Ukraine. How will the West respond? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [February 28, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513 "2014-02-28T15:06:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 144
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2014, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2861 "2014-04-29T23:23:38Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > I remember you asking me why I was “upset” - kind of disengaged with you at that point. You get the respect you deserve, right? Excuse me, I didn’t insult you so I don’t see why you’re insulting me? Anyway, I was polite and respectful and think it’s reasonable to request an explanation. So, please explain why you reacted the way you did to the news of the Mayor being treated in Israel. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2862 "2014-04-30T00:05:02Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > LOL. Helpful choice. Why not Havana or Caracus! > > It looks like he can be moved, and it’s not like they deal with gunshot wounds in Ukrainian hospitals or anything. This appearsd to be a particularly stupid comment posted merely to shit in the thread. Don’t do this sort of thing, again. That said: Ibn Warraq, CarnalK, XT, and everyone else, do not feed into this sort of nonsense. Everyone drop it. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2863 "2014-04-30T00:11:20Z")
It is absolutely not “shitting”, and you really should have a little more sense. I will continue to make whatever comments I like, and you may continue to take whatever actions you like. But it is not “shitting” ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2864 "2014-04-30T00:23:15Z")
And I thought I was telling people to not “feed” it. Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2865 "2014-04-30T01:03:01Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > It is absolutely not “shitting”, and you really should have a little more sense. > > I will continue to make whatever comments I like, and you may continue to take whatever actions you like. But it is not “shitting” That’ll earn a warning. A moderator tells you to drop it, then you drop it. Control yourself. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2866 "2014-04-30T01:58:25Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > This appearsd to be a particularly stupid comment posted merely to shit in the thread. > > Don’t do this sort of thing, again. > > That said: > > Ibn Warraq, CarnalK, XT, and everyone else, do not feed into this sort of nonsense. > > Everyone drop it. > > [/Moderating] Yep, backing off. This thread is contentious enough without me throwing hydrogen into the furnace. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2867 "2014-04-30T02:03:37Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > This appearsd to be a particularly stupid comment posted merely to shit in the thread. > > Don’t do this sort of thing, again. > > That said: > > Ibn Warraq, CarnalK, XT, and everyone else, do not feed into this sort of nonsense. > > Everyone drop it. > > [/Moderating] Understood. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2868 "2014-04-30T04:56:44Z")
**Ibn Warraq** - You must be so pleased with yourslef you reported my post. > [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > That’ll earn a warning. A moderator tells you to drop it, then you drop it. > > Control yourself. Fuck you, and fuck this bullshit moderation. I believe that will leave the rest of you to agree with each other for eternity. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2869 "2014-04-30T13:37:19Z")
Well, that’s worth a couple of warnings but I’m only giving one. If you truly feel you must take issue with moderation, please do so in About This Message Board. I - and most mods - are glad to discuss such things there. Of course, ‘fuck you’ and such is specifically prohibited. Again, control yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2870 "2014-04-30T16:30:01Z")
Here is Putin on how Russian military would operate in Ukraine if it entered there: > **[Путин: Наши войска станут позади женщин и детей. Пусть они попробуют в них...](https://censor.net/ru/video_news/274135/putin_nashi_voyiska_stanut_pozadi_jenschin_i_deteyi_pust_oni_poprobuyut_v_nih_strelyat_video)** > > 04.03.14 18:55 - Президент России Владимир Путин заявил, что воспользуется своим правом ввода войск в Украину только в крайнем случае. “И пусть кто-то из украинских военных попробует стрелять в своих людей, российские военные будут стоять позади людей, не спереди, а сзади. Пускай попробуют стрелять в женщин и детей.” Translation: “And let’s see if the Ukrainian soldiers will shoot their own people, Russian soldiers will stand behind the civilians, not in front of them but behind. Let the Ukrainians try shooting women and children.” ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2871 "2014-04-30T16:48:19Z")
Oh, and in case one wonders about Russian “fascists” (you know, ones “Red Fury” aligns herself with): [![](https://gdb.rferl.org/588039FE-9931-48A0-8C14-D1CFEAD128F0_mw1024_n_s.jpg) ](https://gdb.rferl.org/588039FE-9931-48A0-8C14-D1CFEAD128F0_mw1024_n_s.jpg) [http://21region.org/uploads/posts/2012-11/1352033543\_zd18tocwtoa.jpg](http://21region.org/uploads/posts/2012-11/1352033543_zd18tocwtoa.jpg) [http://vkop.eu/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/russkij\_marsh.jpg](http://vkop.eu/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/russkij_marsh.jpg) [http://img.gazeta.ru/files3/401/5734401/russkiymarsh-pic510-510x340-99801.jpg](http://img.gazeta.ru/files3/401/5734401/russkiymarsh-pic510-510x340-99801.jpg) - “Return Russia to Russians” [http://kp.ru/f/4/image/46/98/599846.jpg](http://kp.ru/f/4/image/46/98/599846.jpg) [http://img12.nnm.me/9/b/1/7/c/63e9f3a2e1f7acf83a90c86509e.jpg](http://img12.nnm.me/9/b/1/7/c/63e9f3a2e1f7acf83a90c86509e.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2872 "2014-04-30T18:15:12Z")
Be that as it may, Terr. Please don’t take shots at banned posters. It’s unseemly and makes your soul all sticky. No warning. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2014, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2873 "2014-04-30T18:18:40Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Be that as it may, Terr. Please don’t take shots at banned posters. It’s unseemly and makes your soul all sticky. > > No warning. Didn’t realize \*\*RedFury \*\*was banned. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 8:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2874 "2014-05-01T08:19:52Z")
It appears that the pro-Maidan interim government has no governing authority in anti-Maidan Ukraine. > [@](#): > > Separatists Tighten Control On East Ukraine Read more and see pictures at: [http://m.huffpost.com/us/slideshow/346591?entry\_id=5244763](http://m.huffpost.com/us/slideshow/346591?entry_id=5244763) On 04-26-2014 at 07:01 AM I wrote: > [@](#): > > I don’t think starting a shooting war to deny a vote on a referendum is something that ‘should happen’ at all. Since the pro-Maidan interim government appears to have lost authoritative control of anti-Maidan regions of Ukraine, do any posters here agree that anti-Maidan regions should vote upon their own localized referendum as the anti-Maidan protest movement is demanding? Or should the pro-Maidan interim government start a civil war by the use of massive force ( aerial bombardment plus similar heavy artillery as was used by Sakaashvilli in South Ossetia) and send in pro-Maidan troops to engage the anti-Maidan protesters in order to crush them and restore pro-Maidan order in anti-Maidan regions? Should a localized referendum be organized and voted upon? Is calling Russians ‘fascists’ going to help resolve this in any way? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2875 "2014-05-01T19:41:31Z")
I think Russia should stop fanning the flames of separatism, and the thugs in eastern Ukraine should accept the fact that they don’t live in Russia. That’s what I think. I don’t accept you false dichotomy. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2876 "2014-05-01T19:47:26Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > It appears that the pro-Maidan interim government has no governing authority in anti-Maidan Ukraine. > > Read more and see pictures at: [http://m.huffpost.com/us/slideshow/346591?entry\_id=5244763](http://m.huffpost.com/us/slideshow/346591?entry_id=5244763) > > On 04-26-2014 at 07:01 AM I wrote: > > Since the pro-Maidan interim government appears to have lost authoritative control of anti-Maidan regions of Ukraine, do any posters here agree that anti-Maidan regions should vote upon their own localized referendum as the anti-Maidan protest movement is demanding? Or should the pro-Maidan interim government start a civil war by the use of massive force ( aerial bombardment plus similar heavy artillery as was used by Sakaashvilli in South Ossetia) and send in pro-Maidan troops to engage the anti-Maidan protesters in order to crush them and restore pro-Maidan order in anti-Maidan regions? > > Should a localized referendum be organized and voted upon? > > Is calling Russians ‘fascists’ going to help resolve this in any way? How about this: Ukraine invites as many neutral observers as they can get to monitor or even run the upcoming elections and keep them clean, and all sides abide by the outcome and recognizes whatever government gets elected. Issues of devolution can then be handled by the new government. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2877 "2014-05-01T20:05:33Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > How about this: Ukraine invites as many neutral observers as they can get to monitor or even run the upcoming elections and keep them clean, and all sides abide by the outcome and recognizes whatever government gets elected. Issues of devolution can then be handled by the new government. For the life of me, I can’t see why some people are so eager to see Ukraine go the separatist route. One may foolishly hope for a Czechoslovakia scenario, but it’s much more common to see a Yugoslavia scenario. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2878 "2014-05-01T20:11:09Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > How about this: Ukraine invites as many neutral observers as they can get to monitor or even run the upcoming elections and keep them clean, and all sides abide by the outcome and recognizes whatever government gets elected. Issues of devolution can then be handled by the new government. Kiev has lost the ability to govern in anti-Maidan regions. So your idea does not take that into account. Anti-Maidan protests want a localized referendum. The alternative is for the pro-Maidan interim government to start a shooting war. Is that your preference as an outsider? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2879 "2014-05-01T20:17:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > For the life of me, I can’t see why some people are so eager to see Ukraine go the separatist route. One may foolishly hope for a Czechoslovakia scenario, but it’s much more common to see a Yugoslavia scenario. It’s a pretty simple calculus for those people: what does the U.S. not want? > [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Kiev has lost the ability to govern in anti-Maidan regions. So your idea does not take that into account. Anti-Maidan protests want a localized referendum. The alternative is for the pro-Maidan interim government to start a shooting war. Is that your preference as an outsider? I also reject this dichotomy. For one thing, there are 225 voting districts in Ukraine, central authority isn’t necessary for an election to be held. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [May 1, 2014, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/2880 "2014-05-01T20:20:44Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I think Russia should stop fanning the flames of separatism, and the thugs in eastern Ukraine should accept the fact that they don’t live in Russia. That’s what I think. I don’t accept you false dichotomy. And if those anti-Maidan Ukrainians that you call ‘thugs’ have no desire to follow your advice do you support pro-Maidan interim government troops to start gunning them down with heavy artillery and airstrikes until they do take your advice? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=143) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=145)