# Russia has invaded Ukraine. How will the West respond? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [February 28, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513 "2014-02-28T15:06:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 185
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3681 "2014-06-18T02:00:15Z")
Damn you, Socrates. Damn you to hell. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3682 "2014-06-18T02:19:48Z")
[QUOTE=NotfooledbyW] Do you agree with me or don’t you? [/QUOTE] Even before this thread started I was basically at ‘did NFBW say it? Must be wrong then!’. In order for someone (other than you with your convoluted and pedantic prose and logic, such as it is) to prove otherwise…well, that’s where ‘extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs’ comes into play. I think I’ll be convinced by a 9/11 Truther or one of the Hoax Folks before I’m willing to agree with you, at this point. (Ok, probably not…but damn, it’s going to take a lot! :p) ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3683 "2014-06-18T02:30:25Z")
“Yes or no? Don’t wait for the translation! Yes or no?” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3684 "2014-06-18T04:59:24Z")
It took him 3 days to generate that pitiful comeback? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3685 "2014-06-18T07:01:32Z")
So no one minds if Lviv declared autonomy from The Ukraine central government prior to Crimea doing it according to a report provided by Batistuta? This quote: “Mark MacKinnon of the Globe&Mail described the event as declaring its autonomy from Yanukovych’s government – finally some accuracy.” You all opposed Crimea doing it. You say nothing about Lviv doing it. Why not be silent on Crimea as well? Or neutral? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 11:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3686 "2014-06-18T11:23:40Z")
The people in Crimea seceded from the entire country. Crimea went bye bye. The people in Lviv just wanted Yanukovych out of power. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3687 "2014-06-18T12:08:40Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > The people in Crimea seceded from the entire country. Crimea went bye bye. The people in Lviv just wanted Yanukovych out of power. Is it your argument that certain reasons (pro-EU) by the minority in the legislature can make separating from the central government legitimate as long as they are promoting a coup of the elected president of all of Ukraine? If so where is that ‘allowance’ written into the constitution? ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3688 "2014-06-18T12:23:04Z")
Who said either was constitutional? ---
**Author:** ![Batistuta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@Batistuta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batistuta)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3689 "2014-06-18T12:49:01Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > If so where is that ‘allowance’ written into the constitution? Oh man. You’ve suddenly started respecting the Ukrainian constitution now? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 1:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3690 "2014-06-18T13:26:56Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Is it your argument that certain reasons (pro-EU) by the minority in the legislature can make separating from the central government legitimate as long as they are promoting a coup of the elected president of all of Ukraine? > > If so where is that ‘allowance’ written into the constitution? No. That was not my argument. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2014, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3691 "2014-06-18T16:30:51Z")
> [@Batistuta](#): > > Oh man. You’ve suddenly started respecting the Ukrainian constitution now? I did until the western separatist rebels in Lviv, the protesters in Kiev, the provocateurs and the lowlife brick and fire bomb throwing rioters succeeded in overthrowing the constitutionally elected government. They had no respect for their constitution, why should anyone else - and specifically those who had their self-interests overthrown as well. ---
**Author:** ![opesdol\_opesdolovich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d78d45/32.png) [@opesdol\_opesdolovich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/opesdol_opesdolovich)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2014, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3692 "2014-06-28T21:21:44Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > Been following this thread for a while. Kudos for **XT** , **Human Action** , **Malthus** , and others for fighting the good fight. > > That said, someone needs to say this: Fuck Putin. Fuck him right in his ferret-like Frank-Burns beady-eyed face. Hey Vlad - why don’t you try and get your country into the Top 100 Life Expectancy from Birth nations before you start taking on more work? Superpower, my ass - first nine years of your Presidency, Russia’s population shrank. Nobody buys anything you export that isn’t a weapon, raw material, or computer virus. Your leadership of your country is bad and you should feel bad. I disagree completely. Under Vladimir Vladimirovich, our country has become immensely stronger politically, financially and politically. Putin has been magnificent in the whole Ukranian broo-ha-ha and it’s been a pleasure to watch him in action. His correct reading of European politicians and the hapless negro in the White House as nothing more than the bags of hot air, was proven to be right on the money. The next chapter in his flawless beatdown of Western “leaders” will be pure comedy gold. Russia is scheduled to receive the delivery of two Mistral-class assault ships from France in the autumn of 2014. While originally both ships were planned to be based in the Pacific, it’s now all, but certain that one of them will become the flag-ship of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet, and will probably be stationed in Sevastopol, a Russian city recently returned by Vladimir Vladimirovich back to Russia’s motherly fold. Of course, the cheese-eating surrendering monkeys made some noises about maybe reneging on their obligations, and not delivering the ships, but Vladimir Vladimirovich quite correctly told them that they might impose “sanctions” all they want, as long as it doesn’t actually involve harming Russian in any way, shape or form. Otherwise, there will be consequences that the West will have to face. Needless to say, France got the message and guaranteed that the ships will be delivered as previously agreed. [http://dmilt.com/index.php?option=com\_content&view=article&id=9941:russia-france-guarantees-mistral-deal&catid=1:europe&Itemid=57](http://dmilt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9941:russia-france-guarantees-mistral-deal&catid=1:europe&Itemid=57) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3693 "2014-06-28T21:33:38Z")
> [@opesdol\_opesdolovich](#): > > I disagree completely. Under Vladimir Vladimirovich, our country has become immensely stronger politically, financially and politically. > Putin has been magnificent in the whole Ukranian broo-ha-ha and it’s been a pleasure to watch him in action. His correct reading of European politicians and the hapless negro in the White House as nothing more than the bags of hot air, was proven to be right on the money. > The next chapter in his flawless beatdown of Western “leaders” will be pure comedy gold. > Russia is scheduled to receive the delivery of two Mistral-class assault ships from France in the autumn of 2014. While originally both ships were planned to be based in the Pacific, it’s now all, but certain that one of them will become the flag-ship of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet, and will probably be stationed in Sevastopol, a Russian city recently returned by Vladimir Vladimirovich back to Russia’s motherly fold. > Of course, the cheese-eating surrendering monkeys made some noises about maybe reneging on their obligations, and not delivering the ships, but Vladimir Vladimirovich quite correctly told them that they might impose “sanctions” all they want, as long as it doesn’t actually involve harming Russian in any way, shape or form. Otherwise, there will be consequences that the West will have to face. > Needless to say, France got the message and guaranteed that the ships will be delivered as previously agreed. > [Defense Marketing Intelligence](http://dmilt.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=9941:russia-france-guarantees-mistral-deal&catid=1:europe&Itemid=57) Man…sure glad you aren’t on my side. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![opesdol\_opesdolovich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d78d45/32.png) [@opesdol\_opesdolovich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/opesdol_opesdolovich)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2014, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3694 "2014-06-28T21:56:42Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Man…sure glad you aren’t on my side. 😛 Oh, same here, old chap, same here! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2014, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3695 "2014-06-28T22:54:25Z")
> [@opesdol\_opesdolovich](#): > > IHis correct reading of European politicians and the hapless negro in the White House as nothing more than the bags of hot air, was proven to be right on the money. “Hapless negro”? Giving you the benefit of the doubt that English is not your first language, but that would be considered by most Americans [and probably 90% of the posters on this MB} to be a deliberately racist statement. ---
**Author:** ![opesdol\_opesdolovich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d78d45/32.png) [@opesdol\_opesdolovich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/opesdol_opesdolovich)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2014, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3696 "2014-06-28T23:24:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > “Hapless negro”? Giving you the benefit of the doubt that English is not your first language, but that would be considered by most Americans [and probably 90% of the posters on this MB} to be a deliberately racist statement. Which specific part would be racist and how is what most Americans may or may not think relevant to our discussion of Putin’s strategic brilliance? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2014, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3697 "2014-06-28T23:25:36Z")
> [@opesdol\_opesdolovich](#): > > Which specific part would be racist . . . The “hapless negro” part. > [@opesdol\_opesdolovich](#): > > . . .and how is what most Americans may or may not think relevant to our discussion of Putin’s strategic brilliance? It is relevant only in damaging your credibility in this discussion. Over here, most of us who are not racists do not think racists are much worth listening to about anything under the sun, racial or non-racial. ---
**Author:** ![opesdol\_opesdolovich](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/d78d45/32.png) [@opesdol\_opesdolovich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/opesdol_opesdolovich)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2014, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3698 "2014-06-28T23:41:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The “hapless negro” part. I don’t think there can be much discussion about the facts that the current US president is both 1. Hapless and 2. Negro. Quick googling reveals that the words in question are used extensively by Americans, and American Negroes as well. Here’s one of the results off the top of the search: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/k_IXzU-lnLU/maxresdefault.jpg "Pulp Fiction - "Shit Negro, That's All You Had to Say"") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_IXzU-lnLU) While I do not claim to have an expertise (or care) what most Americans may or may not think (an expertise you apparently possess), I can, with a lot certainty, assure you that referring to the current US President as “hapless Negro” wouldn’t be considered racist by 100% (or a figure very close to it) Russians and would be considered a factually accurate statement. Think about it… Here’s the poor guy begging, cajoling, threatening French to NOT deliver the ships in question to Russia. > **[Obama warns France on Russia Mistral ship deal](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27722256)** > > President Barack Obama says France should have suspended the sale of two warships to Russia in the light of the crisis in Ukraine. Needless to say, Vladimir Vladimirovich smirks and says he insists on French honoring their commitments. Both you and I know how this will turn out. In a couple of months, French **will** deliver the first ship to Russia. I mean, we could (theoretically) talk about “hapless Vladimir” here, but he’s not the one getting his ears boxed off. > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Over here, most of us who are not racists do not think racists are much worth listening to about anything under the sun, racial or non-racial. I think you’re fully within your rights to not respond to any points anyone makes, because you don’t like the people who make them. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3699 "2014-06-28T23:44:11Z")
> [@opesdol\_opesdolovich](#): > > Which specific part would be racist and how is what most Americans may or may not think relevant to our discussion of Putin’s strategic brilliance? Perhaps I should have been more clear: You should read the registration agreement if you wish to be a regular poster on this MB. Use of racist language can get you banned. Since you are new, and probably not a native English speaker, I thought you might like to know. ---
**Author:** ![voltaire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voltaire/32/313_2.png) [@voltaire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/voltaire)\ **Post date:** [June 29, 2014, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3700 "2014-06-29T00:01:38Z")
> [@opesdol\_opesdolovich](#): > > > [@Fuji](#): > > > > That said, someone needs to say this: Fuck Putin. Fuck him right in his ferret-like Frank-Burns beady-eyed face. Hey Vlad - why don’t you try and get your country into the Top 100 Life Expectancy from Birth nations before you start taking on more work? Superpower, my ass - first nine years of your Presidency, Russia’s population shrank. Nobody buys anything you export that isn’t a weapon, raw material, or computer virus. Your leadership of your country is bad and you should feel bad. > > I disagree completely. Under Vladimir Vladimirovich, our country has become immensely stronger politically, financially and politically. And financially! > [@](#): > > Russia is scheduled to receive the delivery of two Mistral-class assault ships from France in the autumn of 2014. While originally both ships were planned to be based in the Pacific, it’s now all, but certain that one of them will become the flag-ship of Russia’s Black Sea Fleet, and will probably be stationed in Sevastopol, a Russian city recently returned by Vladimir Vladimirovich back to Russia’s motherly fold. > Of course, the cheese-eating surrendering monkeys made some noises about maybe reneging on their obligations, and not delivering the ships, but Vladimir Vladimirovich quite correctly told them that they might impose “sanctions” all they want, as long as it doesn’t actually involve harming Russian in any way, shape or form. You’re actually reinforcing **Fuji** ’s larger point. “Mother Russia” is now incapable of producing its own naval vessels, having to resort to buying them from “cheese-eating surrendering monkeys,” instead. Ouch, I guess that’s why you had to say “politically” twice, eh? 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=184) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=186)