# Russia has invaded Ukraine. How will the West respond? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [February 28, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513 "2014-02-28T15:06:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 188
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3741 "2014-08-30T07:03:04Z")
> [@Diceman](#): > > The sanctions are only temporary. There’s too much money at stake for them not to be. History suggests otherwise. Look at what has happened to other economies in wartime. WWI was catastrophic. The American Civil War came close to bankrupting the U.S., and pretty much did bankrupt the C.S. War bonds were selling at preposterous discounts, and the paper money was close to collapsing. When nations get angry, they let secondary things – like feeding the populace – go by the wayside. Your argument shouldn’t be that there’s too much at stake for the sanctions to persist. Instead, the argument should be that Russia will gladly keep on fighting, even when their entire economy is demolished. The sanctions (probably) won’t succeed, because nations don’t give a shit, once the bloody flag starts waving. ---
**Author:** ![Boogly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Boogly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boogly)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3742 "2014-08-30T07:34:23Z")
If Russia is not invading can our Private Military Companies make money? > **[Is America's Second Contractors' War Drawing Near?](https://time.com/3222342/invisible-soldiers-iraq-contractor-war/)** > > Four years ago this Sunday, President Barack Obama declared the end of the Iraq war. So much of that fight and our current involvement in the Middle East is carried out by a privatized military. Here's why that matters ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3743 "2014-08-30T16:06:42Z")
> [@XT](#): > > So…now what? [Here](http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/28/world/europe/ukraine-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_t1) is the CNN version of the same thing. BTW, hard as it is to believe, but at least one rebel leader actually DID say that the Russian troops in the Ukraine (over a thousand according to CNN) are ‘on vacation’. Hard to credit that anyone would be stupid enough to buy that line, or why anyone would be stupid enough to even say that at this point. Look everybody! **NotfooledbyW** got a PR job with Putin! Local boy makes good! ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3744 "2014-08-31T22:59:12Z")
I think this situation is becoming increasingly alarming…more and more Russian troops and hardware moving into Ukrainian sovereign territory, more sanctions on the horizon from the EU and US, Europe’s _heavy_ dependence on Russian/Ukranian gas reserves that Putin can essentially cut off when he feels like it… An open war in Europe would be the _last_ thing the world needs right now. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3745 "2014-09-03T12:16:11Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Maybe, but it’s just being overcautious, IMO. The West wouldn’t do anything even if it was a full scale Blitzkrieg invasion. Oh, they would condemn it and Obama would probably do another stern speech. Same result though. US doesn’t trade enough with Russia to make a difference, and Europe would not do anything detrimental to its economy for Ukraine’s sake. And of course it is obvious that neither Obama nor Europe would entertain even a modicum of a thought for military action. What’s old is new again. Hungary, 1956. Czechoslovakia, 1968. Engaging in a war with a nuclear power is not an advisable course of action. What else can they do? ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3746 "2014-09-03T15:42:59Z")
Good article in this week’s _New Yorker_ about Putin’s mindset and the new Russian imperialism: > **[Watching the Eclipse](https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/08/11/watching-eclipse)** > > Russia's President sees himself as the leader of a new anti-Western, conservative axis, and his actions in Ukraine have made him a hero at home. David Remnick reports. ---
**Author:** ![tonyfop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/85f322/32.png) [@tonyfop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tonyfop)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3747 "2014-09-03T15:52:52Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > What’s old is new again. > > Hungary, 1956. Czechoslovakia, 1968. Engaging in a war with a nuclear power is not an advisable course of action. What else can they do? Kinda sucks when the three largest nuclear powers sign an agreement to guarantee your territorial integrity in exchange for you giving up your nukes, then one of those powers renegs… ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2014, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3748 "2014-09-05T15:43:12Z")
[The government and rebels have signed a cease-fire.](http://news.msn.com/world/ukraine-signs-cease-fire-with-pro-russian-rebels) ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3749 "2014-09-06T03:43:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [The government and rebels have signed a cease-fire.](http://news.msn.com/world/ukraine-signs-cease-fire-with-pro-russian-rebels) Excellent! I hope this is the first step towards complete independence. And for the record, \*\*\*\* the Galician crybaby fascists and mobocrats who call themselves the Government of the Ukraine. I hope they’re crying a few months from now when the Donetsk People’s Republic wins it’s independence. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3750 "2014-09-06T03:52:38Z")
> [@tonyfop](#): > > Kinda sucks when the three largest nuclear powers sign an agreement to guarantee your territorial integrity in exchange for you giving up your nukes, then one of those powers renegs… Lesson learned: Don’t give up the nukes. No one’s promises mean anything. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3751 "2014-09-06T04:14:38Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Excellent! > > I hope this is the first step towards complete independence. And for the record, \*\*\*\* the Galician crybaby fascists and mobocrats who call themselves the Government of the Ukraine. I hope they’re crying a few months from now when the Donetsk People’s Republic wins it’s independence. Yes I’m sure an “independent” DPR will greatly prefer their new mobocrats. After all, these mobocrats will speak Russian! ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3752 "2014-09-06T16:24:13Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Yes I’m sure an “independent” DPR will greatly prefer their new mobocrats. After all, these mobocrats will speak Russian! The Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republics are fighting for independence, in the short term. Their leaders may want to join Russia eventually, but I’m sure they’ll have a vote before that happens. Speaking Russian is pretty important to them, yes. After all, the proximate cause of the rebellion was that the Galician malcontents who call themselves the Ukraine Government, banned the official use of the Russian language. Of course the war is about a lot of other things- economics, ideology, geopolitics- but the immediate cause was language. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3753 "2014-12-16T20:17:35Z")
I know this is an older thread, but since it’s relevant to some of the earlier discussion I thought I’d give an [update](http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/16/news/economy/russia-ruble-collapse-options/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)…not on the situation in the Ukraine, but on the developing situation in Russia itself, where it seems their economy is in melt down. Granted, much of this has to do with the price of oil, but some of it has to do with those ‘laughable’ sanctions the west imposed with increasing severity on Russia. And no one seems to be stepping up to bail the Russian’s out at this point. I don’t know what all the implications are (I’m guessing ‘bad’ would be mild) for what a complete melt down in Russia would mean not just to Russia or the region but to the world, but thought I’d post it here instead of starting a new thread on a situation that’s just developing at this point. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3754 "2014-12-16T20:21:19Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I know this is an older thread, but since it’s relevant to some of the earlier discussion I thought I’d give an [update](http://money.cnn.com/2014/12/16/news/economy/russia-ruble-collapse-options/index.html?hpt=hp_t2)…not on the situation in the Ukraine, but on the developing situation in Russia itself, where it seems their economy is in melt down. “Melt down” is relative. Compared to the 90s wilderness, this current “melt down” is lap of luxury. Russians are very used to periodic severe austerity. Don’t make the mistake of thinking anything like this will bring Putin down (or even change his mind much). ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3755 "2014-12-16T20:48:45Z")
I was just in Odessa for a month. Melt down there in progress too. Lots of days there were no electricity. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3756 "2014-12-16T22:51:08Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > I was just in Odessa for a month. Melt down there in progress too. Lots of days there were no electricity. Maybe this will teach the Ukes not to take to the streets like a bunch of jabbering monkeys at the zoo next time they don’t like the actions of their government. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3757 "2014-12-16T22:56:12Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > Maybe this will teach the Ukes not to take to the streets like a bunch of jabbering monkeys at the zoo next time they don’t like the actions of their government. Your precious Putin is crashing and burning. Flail all you like. Lolz. ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3758 "2014-12-16T23:11:05Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Your precious Putin is crashing and burning. Flail all you like. Lolz. 1. I don’t much like Putin. 2. His most significant opposition in Russia is the Communists, who I do like. a lot. 3. If he falls, Russia is going to be ruled by Zyuganov more likely than by any wussified, ‘liberal democracy’ degenerate, so I like that just fine. 4. Zyuganov and any of his allies are probably going to be more authoritarian and at least as nationalistic as Putin, and the communists have officially endorsed the DNR / LNR liberation, so whatever comes out of this mess, I think I’ll like it a whole lot more than you and your sort will. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3759 "2014-12-16T23:12:18Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > whatever comes out of this mess, I think I’ll like it a whole lot more than you and your sort will. How will the “jabbering monkeys” feel about it? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2014, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/3760 "2014-12-16T23:16:22Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > 1. I don’t much like Putin. > 2. His most significant opposition in Russia is the Communists, who I do like. a lot. > 3. If he falls, Russia is going to be ruled by Zyuganov more likely than by any wussified, ‘liberal democracy’ degenerate, so I like that just fine. > 4. Zyuganov and any of his allies are probably going to be more authoritarian and at least as nationalistic as Putin, and the communists have officially endorsed the DNR / LNR liberation, so whatever comes out of this mess, I think I’ll like it a whole lot more than you and your sort will. Will the communists and Zyuganov be able to change the price of oil on the world market through their fervent patriotism and honor of the people? Because if not, they will be as fucked as Putin is. You can spin this anyway you like, and root on whoever you like, but if the price of oil doesn’t go above $100 a barrel fairly soon they are all fucked no matter how you slice it. And if it stays at the levels it current is today or drops further for more than a few months then they are going to need that price to be even higher…MUCH higher…to save their asses. But you keep on blaming the Ukrainians and putting them down, if that makes you feel better. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=187) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=189)