# Russia has invaded Ukraine. How will the West respond? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [February 28, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513 "2014-02-28T15:06:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 25
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/481 "2014-03-04T15:35:27Z")
> [@IMfez](#): > > It seems to me that Ukraine outwitted Russia. > > I think Putin was expecting the chaos of the change in power to cause some Ukranian military to fire upon the Russian soldiers and give a pretext to fire back. > > The total lack of military response by the Ukraine forces Russia into a neutral position even when invading. Their only choice now is when to leave (which admittedly may be a while from now) I think they were hoping for ethnic Ukrainains actually oppressing or attacking Ethnic Russians - something that has signally failed to happen. This wrong-footed the Russian propaganda campaign badly, making it laughable. Problem is that it may not make any difference, if the Russian gov’t feels that it can weather the storm of outrage and simply take what it wants anyway. Problem is, can the Russian economy survive? It was already in trouble even without this. In one sense, Russia is in a very strong position - no-one seriously considers challenging the Russian military head-on, not Ukraine, not NATO, not the US going alone, no-one. In another sense, Russia is in a very weak position - their aggression is naked for all to see and no-one seriously believes their propaganda (some Internet commentators aside! :D), their economy is already in trouble, and current events are making it far worse; they have squandered the political capital they have painstakingly assembled over the past few years, capped with the Olympics; even without official sanctions, their stability has been called into question and investors are leaving in droves. What happens next is the question - will Russian strength or Russian weakness prove more significant in the long run? My guess (and it is only a guess) is that Putin seriously underestimated the reaction. My guess is he assumed that it would be no more than what happened over Georgia. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/482 "2014-03-04T15:40:41Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > An overthrow of democracy engineered and funded by the US? Cite, please? > [@IMfez](#): > > It seems to me that Ukraine outwitted Russia. Some were even clever enough to defect before a single shot was fired. More likely scenario is that they were smart enough not to pick a fight they could not possibly win. Crimea is now being called an autonomous region of the Ukraine with it’s own local gov’t. A local referendum will be held very soon and, I’m guessing, they’ll vote to remain “autonomous of Ukraine”. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/483 "2014-03-04T16:19:53Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Cite, please? For the involvment of Pierre Omidyar and USAID? Sure, I’ll find a nice convenient cite that the CIA funded opposition to a Putin-friendly President. I’m sure there’s going to be plenty in mainstream, corporporate/caplitalist media becasue it obv. follows the prescribed narratives. Or, you could consider the last 50 years of suppression of democracy by the Beacon of Democracy right across south and central America, MENA and chunks of Asia. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/484 "2014-03-04T16:21:26Z")
> [@IMfez](#): > > It seems to me that Ukraine outwitted Russia. > > I think Putin was expecting the chaos of the change in power to cause some Ukranian military to fire upon the Russian soldiers and give a pretext to fire back. > > The total lack of military response by the Ukraine forces Russia into a neutral position even when invading. Their only choice now is when to leave (which admittedly may be a while from now) When to LEAVE? There is no leaving. The Crimea is effectively annexed. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/485 "2014-03-04T16:31:12Z")
When in doubt, buy them: [**U.S. pledges $1 billion in aid to Ukraine**](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2014/03/04/obama-russia-ukraine-1-billion-putin-crimea/6006759/) > [@](#): > > The Obama administration announced $1 billion in economic and energy aid to Ukraine on Tuesday, part of its emerging response to Russian military activity in Crimea. > > President Obama, aides and allies are also considering a number of economic sanctions against Russia for its incursion into the Crimea region. > > The administration announced the assistance package for Ukraine as Secretary of State John Kerry landed in Kiev early Tuesday for talks with the new government. > > Treasury Secretary Jack Lew said the United States has been working with allies on a package to “help the Ukrainian government implement the reforms needed to restore financial stability and return to economic growth.” And some posters keep asking for “cites” that the US was behind this coup? Consider it done. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/486 "2014-03-04T16:38:27Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > When in doubt, buy them: > > [**U.S. pledges $1 billion in aid to Ukraine**](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2014/03/04/obama-russia-ukraine-1-billion-putin-crimea/6006759/) > > And some posters keep asking for “cites” that the US was behind this coup? Consider it done. You have an interesting definition of a “cite”. It wasn’t the US that stole all of Ukraine’s money in the first place, was it now? ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/487 "2014-03-04T16:39:27Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > When in doubt, buy them: > > [**U.S. pledges $1 billion in aid to Ukraine**](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2014/03/04/obama-russia-ukraine-1-billion-putin-crimea/6006759/) > > And some posters keep asking for “cites” that the US was behind this coup? Consider it done. That same reasoning would indicate that the US was behind Hurricane Sandy. Sending aid in response to something doesn’t mean you caused it. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/488 "2014-03-04T16:50:12Z")
This does not bode well. > **[Putin's Press Conference Proved Merkel Right: He's Lost His Mind](https://newrepublic.com/article/116852/merkel-was-right-putins-lost-his-mind-press-conference)** > > Putin's dada press conference. Anyone see this press conference? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/489 "2014-03-04T17:11:39Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > This does not bode well. > > [Putin's Press Conference on Ukraine Proved Merkel Right: He's Nuts | The New Republic](http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116852/merkel-was-right-putins-lost-his-mind-press-conference) > > Anyone see this press conference? Yeah, that’s pretty freaking scary. Probably all part of a US plot though, based on may of the posts in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/490 "2014-03-04T17:13:17Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > When in doubt, buy them: > > [**U.S. pledges $1 billion in aid to Ukraine**](http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2014/03/04/obama-russia-ukraine-1-billion-putin-crimea/6006759/) > > And some posters keep asking for “cites” that the US was behind this coup? Consider it done. You seriously believe that this ‘cite’ confirms the assertion? I mean…seriously? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/491 "2014-03-04T17:24:54Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > This does not bode well. > > [Putin's Press Conference on Ukraine Proved Merkel Right: He's Nuts | The New Republic](http://www.newrepublic.com/article/116852/merkel-was-right-putins-lost-his-mind-press-conference) > > Anyone see this press conference? Interesting but I would not rush to conclusions that the man is crazy. He’s under a tremendous amount of pressure right now with the focus of the world on him and what he says or does next. He may not have slept. He may be exhausted. He may be drunk. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/492 "2014-03-04T17:40:26Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Valid point about the right wing conservatives. I’m pretty sure the Crimean takeover was accompanied by professional paramilitary troops with no insignia and speaking flawless Russian. Lots of people speak flawless Russian in Crimea. What is your point? Flawless Russian does not make them Russian Federation soldiers. When the right wingers overthrew the government its coming out that many of the special police that were defending the pro-Russian Ukrainian president/government were the unmarked parramilitary that arrived in Crimea that started the move for independence. An autonomous independent Crimea is being reported as a done deal with many cities siding with the break away from Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/493 "2014-03-04T17:41:22Z")
Tense moment! > **[Ukrainian-Russian airbase stand-off](https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-26432253)** > > Russian troops guarding Crimea's Belbek airbase fire into the air as Ukrainian soldiers previously stationed there marched towards them. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/494 "2014-03-04T17:52:19Z")
Rush Limbaugh is reading a WAPO editorial tearing into Obama’s irresponsibility foreign policy for five years of fantasy: > [@](#): > > President Obama’s foreign policy is based on fantasy > By Editorial Board, Published: MARCH 02, 8:56 PM ET > Aa > FOR FIVE YEARS, President Obama has led a foreign policy based more on how he thinks the world should operate than on reality. It was a world in which “the tide of war is receding” and the United States could, without much risk, radically reduce the size of its armed forces. Other leaders, in this vision, would behave rationally and in the interest of their people and the world. Invasions, brute force, great-power games and shifting alliances — these were things of the past. Secretary of State John F. Kerry displayed this mindset on ABC’s “This Week” Sunday when he said, of Russia’s invasion of neighboring Ukraine, “It’s a 19th century act in the 21st century.” [http://m.washingtonpost.com/opinions/president-obamas-foreign-policy-is-based-on-fantasy/2014/03/02/c7854436-a238-11e3-a5fa-55f0c77bf39c\_story.html](http://m.washingtonpost.com/opinions/president-obamas-foreign-policy-is-based-on-fantasy/2014/03/02/c7854436-a238-11e3-a5fa-55f0c77bf39c_story.html) To be expected but that does not make it less sickening, ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/495 "2014-03-04T17:52:47Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > Tense moment! > > [Russian troops fire into air as Ukrainians march on Crimean airbase - BBC News](http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-26432253) All unarmed, carrying the SSR Sickle and Hammer flag. Interesting choice/decision. Would you interpret that as a show of solidarity? Nostalgia, perhaps? ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/496 "2014-03-04T17:55:20Z")
The US trades $40 billion a year with Russia, Europe $480 billion. Europe has shown no interest in sanctions so not only will ours not work as allies closer to the actual threat we should be following Europe’s lead anyway. We have no business reminding Europe about the threat of appeasement, and their actions indicate to me this conflict looks entirely different over there. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/497 "2014-03-04T18:08:20Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > All unarmed, carrying the SSR Sickle and Hammer flag. Interesting choice/decision. > > Would you interpret that as a show of solidarity? Nostalgia, perhaps? Had me baffled, but maybe it was intended as a reminder, towards the Russians on guard, that not too long ago they were brothers. Kind of an incentive not to shoot? ---
**Author:** ![Teuton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/teuton/32/3864_2.png) [@Teuton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Teuton)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/498 "2014-03-04T18:24:03Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > And with a war-worn military and an economy in slow recovery due in large part to the two reckless wars you were/are involved in. Perfect timing to take on the Russian Bear. _We’ve fought the Bear before, and while we’re Britons true, The Russians shall not have Constantinople._ Some things really do not change. I don’t think the West will, or should, intervene militarily on behalf of The Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/499 "2014-03-04T18:25:03Z")
> [@Latro](#): > > Had me baffled, but maybe it was intended as a reminder, towards the Russians on guard, that not too long ago they were brothers. > > Kind of an incentive not to shoot? They could have marched up unarmed and without flags of any kind. Yet, they chose not to. My speculation is that in absence of an elected Ukrainian gov’t, combined with the fact that the Ukrainian military appears to be demonstrating nostalgia and solidarity with the Russian military through defections and displays like this, Putin is absolutely correct in assuming that much of Ukraine would hand itself over readily to Russian control. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/500 "2014-03-04T18:45:51Z")
Nice folks - family values - NRA on steroids - > [@](#): > > “The Right Sector was armed and will be armed till the time when it will be necessary,” said the man in camouflage in the video. As if to prove his words, he pulled anAK-47 machine gun out from under the table of a local Ukrainian parliament. “You did not give us this weapon and you will not take it away. Who wants to take away my machine gun, my pistol, my knives? Let them try! As Americans say, ‘God made every man different; Sam Colt made them equal!’ I will put aside my Kalashnikov only when order in Ukraine is restored.” [http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/01/can-ukraine-control-its-far-right-ultranationalists.html](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/03/01/can-ukraine-control-its-far-right-ultranationalists.html) Celebrate US Taxpayer - you are sending them a $billion we apparently don’t need. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=24) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=26)