# Russia has invaded Ukraine. How will the West respond? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [February 28, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513 "2014-02-28T15:06:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/561 "2014-03-04T23:44:39Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Once again, [what makes you think the U.S. and EU are even aligned here](http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/feb/07/eu-us-diplomat-victoria-nuland-phonecall-leaked-video)? What I like about the Nuland wiretapping is how refreshingly normal and sensible our diplomatic corp sounds. I don’t necessarily agree with Nuland about Klitschko, but it’s all pretty normal-sounding. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/562 "2014-03-04T23:51:58Z")
Rumsfeld crawled out from under a rock and just spoke on WMAL hate talk radio. His message is nothing but hate, bitterness and utter ignorance and lies. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2014, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/563 "2014-03-04T23:55:08Z")
> [@FoieGrasIsEvil](#): > > I agree. Their life expectancy is alarmingly low for a modernized nation…and yes, they have a ton of nukes…can’t help but wonder if their low life expectancy plays into some kind of fatalistic outlook which therefore makes them dangerous. Isn’t fatalism just a part of the historic Russian psyche? ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/564 "2014-03-05T00:09:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Remember [when Putin was the darling of the American right](http://www.salon.com/2014/03/03/when_the_right_loved_vladimir_putin/)? You mean like this morning? [Palin: Putin wrestles bears, Obama wears mom jeans](http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/palin-obama-wears-mom-jeans) ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/565 "2014-03-05T00:48:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Once again, [what makes you think the U.S. and EU are even aligned here](http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/feb/07/eu-us-diplomat-victoria-nuland-phonecall-leaked-video)? It’s not MY CT. And why you think trotting out the fuck you EU thingy is meaningful is beyond me, to be honest. I know that some of you in this thread think continuing to trot that out means something, but I’m not seeing it. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/566 "2014-03-05T00:53:55Z")
> [@Steken](#): > > … Not quite what you were hoping for, eh, **Redfury**? 😉 [**Distorting Russia**](http://www.thenation.com/article/178344/distorting-russia) > [@](#): > > …But the most crucial media omission is Moscow’s reasonable conviction that the struggle for Ukraine is yet another chapter in the West’s ongoing, US-led march toward post-Soviet Russia, which began in the 1990s with NATO’s eastward expansion and continued with US-funded NGO political activities inside Russia, a US-NATO military outpost in Georgia and missile-defense installations near Russia. Whether this longstanding Washington-Brussels policy is wise or reckless, it—not Putin’s December financial offer to save Ukraine’s collapsing economy—is deceitful. The EU’s “civilizational” proposal, for example, includes “security policy” provisions, almost never reported, that would apparently subordinate Ukraine to NATO. > > **Any doubts about the Obama administration’s real intentions in Ukraine should have been dispelled by the recently revealed taped conversation between a top State Department official, Victoria Nuland, and the US ambassador in Kiev. The media predictably focused on the source of the “leak” and on Nuland’s verbal “gaffe”—“Fuck the EU.” But the essential revelation was that high-level US officials were plotting to “midwife” a new, anti-Russian Ukrainian government by ousting or neutralizing its democratically elected president—that is, a coup.** > > Americans are left with a new edition of an old question. Has Washington’s twenty-year winner-take-all approach to post-Soviet Russia shaped this degraded news coverage, or is official policy shaped by the coverage? Did Senator John McCain stand in Kiev alongside the well-known leader of an extreme nationalist party because he was ill informed by the media, or have the media deleted this part of the story because of McCain’s folly? > > And what of Barack Obama’s decision to send only a low-level delegation, including retired gay athletes, to Sochi? In August, Putin virtually saved Obama’s presidency by persuading Syrian President Bashar al-Assad to eliminate his chemical weapons. Putin then helped to facilitate Obama’s heralded opening to Iran. Should not Obama himself have gone to Sochi—either out of gratitude to Putin, or to stand with Russia’s leader against international terrorists who have struck both of our countries? Did he not go because he was ensnared by his unwise Russia policies, or because the US media misrepresented the varying reasons cited: the granting of asylum to Edward Snowden, differences on the Middle East, infringements on gay rights in Russia, and now Ukraine? Whatever the explanation, as Russian intellectuals say when faced with two bad alternatives, “Both are worst.” Enjoy your evening as well. Perhaps you’ll wake-up clear headed tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/567 "2014-03-05T01:08:36Z")
> [@blindboyard](#): > > Yes, I mean the National Endowment for Democracy are involved, possibly the most sinister organisation in the world today, specifically created because the CIA and USAID and company had all established such a mind-bogglingly awful reputation for overthrowing government and massacring their supporters. When NED arrives, democracy dies. But some people prefer to live in cloud cuckoo land, where America doesn’t have a proper healthcare system because of the holy efficiency of the private sector, where those Iraqi WMDs are gonna turn up in Syria at any moment, where George Bush actually won an election, and where America is a selfless force for good in the world, going around helping lesser nations onto the path of righteousness. Hole in one. _Applauds_ 😉 ---
**Author:** ![iLemming](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90db22/32.png) [@iLemming](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iLemming)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/568 "2014-03-05T01:12:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > If Putin wants a Russo-Asian economic bloc, he does not need Crimea or Ukraine or anything to Russia’s west; he needs to look east and south, and cozy up to China and India. What, and give up Crimea / Sevastopol…?? lol! good one. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/569 "2014-03-05T01:34:16Z")
> [@XT](#): > > It’s not MY CT. And why you think trotting out the fuck you EU thingy is meaningful is beyond me, to be honest. I know that some of you in this thread think continuing to trot that out means something, but I’m not seeing it. It means the U.S. and EU are not necessarily working hand in glove here, which many appear to assume. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/570 "2014-03-05T03:03:11Z")
I’m just happy RedFury and blindboyard have explained that it’s okay for Russia to break its word, invade another country, and generally push their neighbours around because another country did something bad in 2003. Clearly, another country doing something bad in 2003 means there are no rules or decency anymore. So glad they cleared that up. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/571 "2014-03-05T03:09:42Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Can someone exactly explain what the US’s interests are here? Is there some conflicting interest as far as Europe and America are concerned? Europe has some distinct trade issues, but does the US really? If the US spent a bunch of time and money secretly orchestrating this, what the hell for? America has got to show strength so that Russia doesn’t think it can steal Alaska? People talk about how this is some obvious American pattern, but part of that pattern is usually a distinct economic goal. In all seriousness, the only interests the US has here is maintaining some sort of international standard that one country doesn’t invade another (unless it’s the US doing the invading). Other than that, we may wish the Ukrainian people the best, but it really matters not at all to us how this turns out. I suppose we could get into the chess game of how this affects the US vs the Russian influence of what is going on in Syria and Iran, and maybe that’s worth worrying about, but frankly it doesn’t bother me much. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/572 "2014-03-05T03:33:39Z")
> [@BrokenBriton](#): > > Where woud that come from, except another Edward Snowden five years, ten years down the line. You have to read the runes better, not wait for proclamational headlines in the NewYork Times. So then basically what you’re doing is no different than those believing in such whacko conspiracy theories as those believing the US government is controlled by a bunch of evil Zionists or other such conspiracy theories. You have nothing but “gut instinct” and wild speculation. Or do you feel I’m wrong and people arguing that believers in Zionists controlling the US government and similar CTs should be taken seriously. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/573 "2014-03-05T03:37:14Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > It appears that Putin is starting to walk things back, somewhat. Various news reports say that he’s recalled the military exercises on Ukrainian borders and is pretending like the Russian troops deployed to Crimea are not really there. The western news media left, middle and right spin on what Putin said is quite inacurate. Putin actually said that Russian forces in Crimea have beefed up security to defend its bases as he also denied that the troops in control of Ukrainian military bases across Crimea, were Russian. Putin described those at Ukrainian bases ad local “self-defense forces.” Why can Putin be correct? Because of this: > [@](#): > > Russia’s ambassador to the United Nations, Vitaly Churkin, said Monday at the U.N. Security Council that Russia was entitled to deploy up to 25,000 troops in Crimea under the agreement. Churkin didn’t specify how many Russian troops are now stationed in Crimea, but said that “they are acting in a way they consider necessary to protect their facilities and prevent extremist actions.” Russia is entitled to deploy 25,000 troops into Crimea. The issue is whether they are off the bases they are restricted to be on. Putin denied that Russian troops are not where they should be. Putin could be lying about where Russuan troops have ventured out - but that is not what Quicksilver just wrote. Putin is not pretending that Russian troops deployed to Crimea are not really there. Putin may end up leasing Russia’s Naval Base from the Autonomous Republic of Crimea for one Ruble a year and our journalists and high officials are poking fun that Putin has gone nuts if he thinks Russian troops are not there. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/574 "2014-03-05T04:00:40Z")
Europe doesn’t care, at least not enough to throw any kind of official warning out for so much as a sanction. Why do you think the US should officially do anything about this? What can they possibly achieve on their own and for what end? ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 6:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/575 "2014-03-05T06:23:31Z")
Well it’s a blessing that Putin is the smart guy in all of this after watching last night on BBC McCain liking him to Hitler!!! (very diplomatic I must say) and that other cretin John Kerry from Kiev (would have made more sense to have sent as the US diplomat that other clown Jim Carey!) One thing is for sure to anyone watching last night that these two who are seemingly the ‘diplomats’ sent from the USA camp that they are hell bent on escalating the situation with all their unbelievable rhetoric. I seriously hope and pray that the Americans saw that display last night from these two insane warmongers and go out in the streets themselves now and ask for something to be done about them but I am afraid they will do nothing and we are heading to war and an even bigger disaster. If you didn’t watch these two don’t even bother discussing my post. You have to have seen them to understand why we must support Putin against these complete lying, out of touch from reality, hypocritical raving lunatics! If it were not so serious an issue with so much at stake I would have been rolling on the floor laughing at them and what they were saying… ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/576 "2014-03-05T06:29:34Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Europe doesn’t care, at least not enough to throw any kind of official warning out for so much as a sanction. > > Why do you think the US should officially do anything about this? What can they possibly achieve on their own and for what end? If you watched the two official speeches by the US Kerry and McCain then you would be in no doubt whatsoever that the main aim of the USA in all of this is to make Putin explode and trigger a war after what they said. Absolutely no freaking doubt about that at all!!! I hope Putin did not watch them last night or if he did he stays calm and his cabinet and advisors do the same and ignore them. They were deliberately sticking the needle in the eye of the bear to provoke a response. ---
**Author:** ![blindboyard](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blindboyard/32/2833_2.png) [@blindboyard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blindboyard)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 7:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/577 "2014-03-05T07:36:07Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Can someone exactly explain what the US’s interests are here? Is there some conflicting interest as far as Europe and America are concerned? Europe has some distinct trade issues, but does the US really? If the US spent a bunch of time and money secretly orchestrating this, what the hell for? America has got to show strength so that Russia doesn’t think it can steal Alaska? People talk about how this is some obvious American pattern, but part of that pattern is usually a distinct economic goal. America has no interests at stake, American companies and individuals do. Force markets open, loot ahoy. Disaster capitalism. ---
**Author:** ![levdrakon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@levdrakon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/levdrakon)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 8:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/578 "2014-03-05T08:28:22Z")
Ukrainians want to open their markets so it’s not “force open the markets.” As far as “loot ahoy,” you’re thinking of the oligarchs and politicians. Western business is greedy, but they can’t introduce child labor prisons or something. There are other regions of the world for that. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/579 "2014-03-05T10:03:49Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Can someone exactly explain what the US’s interests are here? Is there some conflicting interest as far as Europe and America are concerned? Europe has some distinct trade issues, but does the US really? If the US spent a bunch of time and money secretly orchestrating this, what the hell for? It’s a huge, direct border. It’s akin to Russia being the most influencial force in - say - Mexico, and we know from history the US political class isn’t keen on that kind of thing. In the great geo-politcal chess game, Ukraine is an enormous piece. Russia is already spooked by western advances east through the populism of the EU, and it really has no choice other than to protect its remaining sphere of influence/cushion - as indeed the US has, and would do again. Russia can only do that where it has a realistic chance of democratic success, hence it currently contains ambitions to the Crimea and areas of eastern Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2014, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/580 "2014-03-05T10:05:07Z")
> [@levdrakon](#): > > Ukrainians want to open their markets we do need to get over the notion of Ukraine as one voice. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=30)