# Russia has invaded Ukraine. How will the West respond? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [February 28, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513 "2014-02-28T15:06:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/721 "2014-03-06T14:13:19Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > When have you verified your opinion/guessingb to be based upon factual information as to the nationality of every paramilitary dude operating on the Crimean peninsula the past week. You think every one is a Russian invader? Prove it? It doesn’t really matter exactly how many. Anything other than ZERO is unacceptable. You have no data to back up the claim you made. As usual, you threw something out that you made up so as to support the conclusion you had already come to. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/722 "2014-03-06T14:15:34Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > You did not address my question/point. Did Putin manufacture the violent overthrow of the elected government in Kiev? And are your friends ok with handing some positions in givernment now to known fascists? > > I have friends from Ukraine too. One is Russian speaking who lived in Kiev where she was treated like shit when she lived there. She may well have been treated like shit, but the notion that she was treated like shit because she was Russian-speaking is laughable to anyone who knows Kiev. Pretty well everyone in Kiev speaks Russian, more than half the population there use Russian as their first language; it is the language of business, heard on the radio, etc. > [@](#): > > **Russian language dominates in informal communication in the capital of Ukraine, Kiev.** [15][16] It is also used by a sizeable linguistic minority (4-5% of the total population) in Central and Western Ukraine.[17] > **[Russian language in Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_language_in_Ukraine)** > > Russian is the most common first language in the Donbas and Crimea regions of Ukraine and the city of Kharkiv, and the predominant language in large cities in the eastern and southern portions of the country.\[needs update\] The usage and status of the language is the subject of political disputes. Ukrainian is the country's only state language since the adoption of the 1996 Constitution, which prohibits an official bilingual system at state level but also guarantees the free development, use ... ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/723 "2014-03-06T14:51:53Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > …I note that **Redfury** has not commented on this. I ask once again: **Redfury** , does this change your opinion? Or not? Propaganda is coming fast & furious from both sides, so it’s hard to know who to believe – though I pretty much discard the US MSM off-hand. So I’ll stay my final judgement on this one if it’s OK by you – and even if it isn’t. 🙂 That said, according to my reasoning, the violent overthrow of a democratically elected government is called a _coup d’etat_. An installed “interim” government that consists of mainly radical nationalists, right-wing extremists, anti-Semites and active neo-Nazis at the helm is called fascistic. Personnel in CIA, State Dept. and U.S. NGO’s who foment violent regime change in sovereign nations are called “infiltrators” and “instigators”. The very visible goal – going back to Clinton’s second term – to encircle Russia and China by the US-led West, control oil, natural gas and global distribution channels in central Asia is obviously part of the American geo-political strategy on the “Grand Chessboard”. With little to no importance given by U.S. media to explaining these facts, some influent American conservatives and liberals have been induced with war fever. I just hope said fever doesn’t advance and/or spread into dizziness, confusion and hallucinations…as some are already showing. To be continued. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/724 "2014-03-06T15:17:45Z")
BTW, **Malthus** , this quote does NOT agree with the video report she gave: > [@Olga](#): > > Myself **I saw only protesters. I do not know the type of wounds suffered by military people** ," she told The Telegraph. “I have no access to those people.” > [@Olga @ 1:18 on video](#): > > 1:18 “ **On the 18th I was also helping military**. Helping Berkut. They asked me give them help. **So we do help all people who need help**.” [**Olga Bogomolets Kiev Ukraine**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5eiZERkECI) Can you square a fishy circle? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/725 "2014-03-06T15:49:58Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > BTW, **Malthus** , this quote does NOT agree with the video report she gave: > > [**Olga Bogomolets Kiev Ukraine**](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5eiZERkECI) > > Can you square a fishy circle? So, your answer is that the informant - on which, you may recall, the allegation ultimately rests - is a liar? 😕 Myself, I took it to mean that she had examined the bodies of dead protestors but not those of dead Security Forces. This is perfectly compatible with offering “help” to live Berkut. But if you want to go with the theory that Olga is just a liar, be your guest. I think the rather more plausible theory is that the Estonian Minister is either lying, or simply misunderstood (though how one can misunderstand something so sensational is beyond me). How likely is it that this Doc, who is a leading figure in the protest movement herself, would have actually told the Estonian Minister that the snipers were hired by the protestors? If she believed that they were (and how in the world would she know?) and had a sudden attack of concience and confessed all to the Estonian minister, why is she denying all now? Strike you as at all reasonable? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/726 "2014-03-06T15:52:29Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Propaganda is coming fast & furious from both sides, so it’s hard to know who to believe – though I pretty much discard the US MSM off-hand. So I’ll stay my final judgement on this one if it’s OK by you – and even if it isn’t. 🙂 > > That said, according to my reasoning, the violent overthrow of a democratically elected government is called a _coup d’etat_. An installed “interim” government that consists of mainly radical nationalists, right-wing extremists, anti-Semites and active neo-Nazis at the helm is called fascistic. Personnel in CIA, State Dept. and U.S. NGO’s who foment violent regime change in sovereign nations are called “infiltrators” and “instigators”. The very visible goal – going back to Clinton’s second term – to encircle Russia and China by the US-led West, control oil, natural gas and global distribution channels in central Asia is obviously part of the American geo-political strategy on the “Grand Chessboard”. > > With little to no importance given by U.S. media to explaining these facts, some influent American conservatives and liberals have been induced with war fever. I just hope said fever doesn’t advance and/or spread into dizziness, confusion and hallucinations…as some are already showing. > > To be continued. Interesting effect of cognitive dissonance - when faced with proof that the allegation is false, the immediate reaction is to launch into a screed about fascists, anti-semites, and Western conspiracies. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/727 "2014-03-06T15:57:16Z")
Propaganda is coming fast & furious from both sides, so it’s hard to know who to believe – though I pretty much discard anything that challenges my preconceptions. It’s so much easier that way. Disclaimer - the above is satirical snark and may or may not reflect my actual views. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/728 "2014-03-06T15:57:36Z")
What _I_ find interesting is how you completely ignore the disconnect between her video interview and what she alleges in the Telegraph. _:::shrug:::_ ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/729 "2014-03-06T16:22:01Z")
I guess the answer to my question is … “not”. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/730 "2014-03-06T16:33:08Z")
A referendum ratified by the local Parliament, a _referendum_; someone call USAID quickly, they need to throw a couple $billion somewhere to stop this nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/731 "2014-03-06T17:02:05Z")
You may guess all you’d like while continuing to ignore the obvious contradiction of Bogomolets’ responses in the video interview and what she said in The Telegraph – which I kindly spoon-fed you. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/732 "2014-03-06T17:20:39Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > You may guess all you’d like while continuing to ignore the obvious contradiction of Bogomolets’ responses in the video interview and what she said in The Telegraph – which I kindly spoon-fed you. And to which he responded. You may not agree with that interpretation but the issue wasn’t ignored. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/733 "2014-03-06T17:23:39Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Won’t someone please think of the Crimeans? Crimea river… (and I cannot BELIEVE no one has hit that one yet…) ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/734 "2014-03-06T17:35:50Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Crimea river… (and I cannot BELIEVE no one has hit that one yet…) :smack: Ouch. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/735 "2014-03-06T17:46:00Z")
Deleted double post ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/736 "2014-03-06T17:46:27Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > You may guess all you’d like while continuing to ignore the obvious contradiction of Bogomolets’ responses in the video interview and what she said in The Telegraph – which I kindly spoon-fed you. As noted by **Gyrate** , I did in fact answer. Did you miss it? But, for the sake of interest, where does this alleged “contradiction” get you? The _only_ source for this story is (allegedly) the doctor. If the doctor is truthful, as I suspect, the story is bullshit. What if you are right and the “contradiction” is a real blow to her credibility. I think your argument is silly, but as a thought experiment let’s all assume that she’s been caught in a crippling contradiction. What that does (assuming it is true), is undermine the credibilty of the sole source for the claim. You have just demonstrated that the doc is a liar! This is truly the horns of a dilemma. Either the doc is truthful or she’s a liar - in either case the claim is dubious. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/737 "2014-03-06T17:47:19Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > And to which he responded. You may not agree with that interpretation but the issue wasn’t ignored. Evasive at best. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/738 "2014-03-06T17:50:20Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > As noted by **Gyrate** , I did in fact answer. Did you miss it? > > But, for the sake of interest, where does this alleged “contradiction” get you? > > The _only_ source for this story is (allegedly) the doctor. If the doctor is truthful, as I suspect, the story is bullshit. > > What if you are right and the “contradiction” is a real blow to her credibility. I think your argument is silly, but as a thought experiment let’s all assume that she’s been caught in a crippling contradiction. What that does (assuming it is true), is undermine the credibilty of the sole source for the claim. You have just demonstrated that the doc is a liar! > > This is truly the horns of a dilemma. Either the doc is truthful or she’s a liar - in either case the claim is dubious. So conduct an investigation. Problem solved. Doesn’t seem the current usurpers have much interest in doing so. ETA: Thus my earlier statement about withholding judgment. ---
**Author:** ![BrokenBriton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@BrokenBriton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrokenBriton)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/739 "2014-03-06T18:03:21Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Crimea river… (and I cannot BELIEVE no one has hit that one yet…) Believe me they have, for a few days at least. Example: [https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/1507196\_10151915697517687\_1752171148\_n.jpg](https://scontent-b-ams.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/t1/1507196_10151915697517687_1752171148_n.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2014, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/740 "2014-03-06T18:13:07Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > So conduct an investigation. Problem solved. Doesn’t seem the current usurpers have much interest in doing so. According to the only information we have, the “usurpers” have in fact launched an investigation - again, I refer you to the statement by the Doc. I imagine that they have a few other things on their mind right now, like having their country eaten alive by Russia while its economy tanks, so I’m not exactly expecting swift results. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=38)