# Russia has invaded Ukraine. How will the West respond? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [February 28, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513 "2014-02-28T15:06:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/101 "2014-03-01T14:33:56Z")
This is rapidly sliding out of control [Russian parliament approves troop deployment in Ukraine - BBC News](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26400035) Putin asks his upper house to rubber-stamp the use of Russian forces. The west can’t do anything to stop this now. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/102 "2014-03-01T14:49:33Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > The sad thing is that America and the West don’t even have any high moral ground left from which to chide Russia for its interference in the affairs of a sovereign nation. Russia is simply following the path laid down by the West over the last few decades. And Russia is following a path much less egregious and more restrained than the blitzkrieg path from Kuwait to Baghdad taken by the UK and US in March 2003. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/103 "2014-03-01T15:01:20Z")
Putin’s statement says Russia will avail itself of the right to send troops to ALL of Ukraine > **[Владимир Путин внёс обращение в Совет Федерации](http://kremlin.ru/events/president/news/20353)** > > Владимир Путин внёс обращение в Совет Федерации Федерального Собрания Российской Федерации. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/104 "2014-03-01T15:02:15Z")
You (NotfooledbyW) aren’t keeping up with current events. Putin is now openly asking his parliament to approve of war. War of conquest, might I add. The objective here is to absorb parts of Ukraine into Russia. Make no mistake; Putin is a dangerous, dangerous man. Any doubt is now removed; he is manufacturing crises to justify war and territorial expansion. This is the worst threat to international peace in a long, long time. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/105 "2014-03-01T15:05:20Z")
> [@Marmite\_Lover](#): > > Germany Umm. Can’t argue with that I guess. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/106 "2014-03-01T15:05:47Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > This is rapidly sliding out of control [Russian parliament approves troop deployment in Ukraine - BBC News](http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26400035) > > Putin asks his upper house to rubber-stamp the use of Russian forces. The west can’t do anything to stop this now. Stop what? Seriously stop what? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/107 "2014-03-01T15:07:34Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Make no mistake; Putin is a dangerous, dangerous man. Any doubt is now removed; he is manufacturing crises to justify war and territorial expansion. This is the worst threat to international peace in a long, long time. In what way is he threatening international peace? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/108 "2014-03-01T15:11:06Z")
How about we all accept that not everything revolves around the US and there are limits to American influence? The US can no more about a Russian invasion of Ukraine than Russia could do about a US invasion of Baja California. The notion of sending in US advisors as tripwires into the shooting gallery so that the situation would escalate in the event of their getting killed is preposterous. The only playable card we have is economic sanctions. ---
**Author:** ![Marmite\_Lover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e495f1/32.png) [@Marmite\_Lover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marmite_Lover)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/109 "2014-03-01T15:12:49Z")
Wait for it…WAIT! for it… The anti Russian Crimean tatar jihadists are the ones to watch now that the Western backed coup is underway > [@](#): > > THE STORY OF ABU KHALID, OR “RAMAZAN FROM NIZHNEGORSK” > > FiSyria now tells the story of how Ramazan, a Tatar from Nizhnegorsk in the Crimea turned into Abu Khalid the suicide bomber. > > ;This brother had an amazing story. I couldn’t not write about him, since his act was the epitome of sincerity before the Almighty. > > A day before he left for Syria, his mom died. He was deeply grieved, but despite the difficulties of this world, Abu Khalid came to Syria to raise the word of Allah. Always simple, never getting into arguments, soft-spoken with the mujahideen, that’s how everyone talked about him. > > In the Crimea he was known as Ramazan from Nizhnegorsk. Already when he was at home there he started to get interested in the concept of suicide martyrdom in Islam. When he left his native land and emigrated to this blessed land, he often would say, “Brothers, let’s carry out a suicide operation.” > > I remember how he told me before the suicide operation that our brothers had suggested he marry. He replied, “I will perform the Istikhara (Guidance Prayer) and then give you an answer.” > > A week before the suicide attack he married a local Muslim woman and told her about his decision. Unexpectedly, she replied, “I’ve been dreaming about this for two years.” > > They wanted to carry out the operation together, but Sharia Law forbids it, because there was already the suicide of a second person. > > The operation against the al-Kindi Hospital was planned after the Guidance Prayer. A 5 ton truck was prepared but Allah determined that the truck would break down on the way there. A decision was taken to try again on the following day. Another 2 tons of explosives were added to the truck. After the fajr prayer he went to meet Allah…. > > For several hours before the operation, I asked him what prompted this noble act. He gave me a short answer, “If we don’t do it, then who will?” > > Once again, you’re convinced that Allah takes the best of the Mujahideen and makes them martyrs. I got the impression that he just walked away from us to another place. Afterward, from time to time I miss this brother who is no longer with us but in another world. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/110 "2014-03-01T15:18:19Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > You (NotfooledbyW) aren’t keeping up with current events. Putin is now openly asking his parliament to approve of war. War of conquest, might I add. The objective here is to absorb parts of Ukraine into Russia. > > Make no mistake; Putin is a dangerous, dangerous man. Any doubt is now removed; he is manufacturing crises to justify war and territorial expansion. This is the worst threat to international peace in a long, long time. I am keeping up just fine. My point is that at this point Putin is not close to being dangerous to a peaceful outcome in Ukraine as Bush and Blair were a total disaster to a peaceful outcome in Iraq in March of 2003. If you think Putin is worse than that pair of international lawbreakers then argue the matter straight up. I am keeping up with current events just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/111 "2014-03-01T15:30:52Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > In what way is he threatening international peace? If he can do this in Ukraine, what’s to stop him from inflaming Russian minorities again in other ex soviet territories, like for instance, northern Kazakhstan? ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/112 "2014-03-01T15:33:55Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Stop what? Seriously stop what? Russia flexing the muscle in another sovereign territory. It is an actual violation of territory after all. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/113 "2014-03-01T15:34:40Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > If he can do this in Ukraine, what’s to stop him from inflaming Russian minorities again in other ex soviet territories, like for instance, northern Kazakhstan? Are you suggesting this coup was staged by Putin/Russia? You think he masterminded this? ---
**Author:** ![Ryan\_Liam](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ryan_liam/32/3965_2.png) [@Ryan\_Liam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ryan_Liam)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/114 "2014-03-01T15:41:31Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Are you suggesting this coup was staged by Putin/Russia? You think he masterminded this? Nope, but he’s using it to his advantage. However, before he _did_ engineer the South Ossesia and Abkhazia split in Georgia. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/115 "2014-03-01T15:51:44Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > How about we all accept that not everything revolves around the US and there are limits to American influence? The US can no more about a Russian invasion of Ukraine than Russia could do about a US invasion of Baja California. The notion of sending in US advisors as tripwires into the shooting gallery so that the situation would escalate in the event of their getting killed is preposterous. The only playable card we have is economic sanctions. You are right … Actually Putin is in a much worse fight than people give him credit for. There is no long term military option for a Putin to consider. He could militarily take back Crimea militarily without really needing to fire a shot. But there is no political or moral value in that. The most playable card in that sanctions might have little effect is diplomatic ‘rope a dope’ as Putin flails away with lefts and rights and uppercut in anger after getting dumped on by anti-Russian rioters with Molotov Cocktails and losing a deal when a democratically elected government was ousted by violent means. But allowing Obama to do the rope a dope politically here in the states would take a much wiser public awareness than is even remotely possible at this time. We are doing rope a dope anyway because that is all there is. We ought to just call it that and wait until Putin’s bare chest and knuckles get tired. Then let the negotiations begin. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/116 "2014-03-01T15:58:04Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > But allowing Obama to do the rope a dope politically here in the states would take a much wiser public awareness than is even remotely possible at this time. Unfortunately, the political environment in the US is that everyone who hates Obama is going to use this as a club to beat him with, even though they will propose no alternative course of action. You know that John McCain is salivating at the prospect of going on the Sunday talk shows and crucifying Obama over this. If only we had had the sense to elect a vice president who can see Russia from her house. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/117 "2014-03-01T16:00:23Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Nope, but he’s using it to his advantage. However, before he _did_ engineer the South Ossesia and Abkhazia split in Georgia. Do you have a source for that ‘did’ since it is rather serious that Putin had Russian solders killed while serving as peacekeepers in South Ossetia when wanna-be-NATO-Georgian rockets rained down on them where they lived and slept. I suppose Putin is so evil and power mad and full of lust for conquest that he would ‘engineer’ the deaths of his own troops to annex two pieces of real estate that are probably more trouble than they are worth. But I doubt it. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/118 "2014-03-01T16:10:36Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > Unfortunately, the political environment in the US is that everyone who hates Obama is going to use this as a club to beat him with, even though they will propose no alternative course of action. You know that John McCain is salivating at the prospect of going on the Sunday talk shows and crucifying Obama over this. If only we had had the sense to elect a vice president who can see Russia from her house. Exactly. But this thread is great. You are right about Palin. Our right wing hate talk radio station aired her words prediction in 2008 that Obama was soft on Russia after they destroyed Georgia’s NATO aspirations in response to the unprovoked assault on South Ossetia. Palin predicted Obama’s softness as a Senator would enable Putin to someday invade Ukraine. Palin and WMAL’s hate talkers somehow forgot that GWBush was President at the time and did nothing about it as Russian tanks rolled down the GWBush Highway toward Tbilisi because there was nothing he could do about. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/119 "2014-03-01T16:10:43Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > Nope, but he’s using it to his advantage. However, before he _did_ engineer the South Ossesia and Abkhazia split in Georgia. It shouldn’t be dismissed that there are millions of ethnic Russians in the former/breakaway republics that comprised the USSR. It’s not entirely unreasonable for Putin to seize opportunities to repatriate parts of those republics with a significat population that expresses a desire and concerted effort to rejoin with Russia. I’m not always certain it’s to their advantage in the long run, but ethnic divisions do run deep. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/120 "2014-03-01T16:14:43Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > In what way is he threatening international peace? Well, there’s the “engaging in warfare against another nation” thing. That could be conceived in bleeding heart, panty-waist, politically correct circles as threatening peace between the two nations. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=7)