# Russia has invaded Ukraine. How will the West respond? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [February 28, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513 "2014-02-28T15:06:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 83
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/1641 "2014-03-20T21:45:05Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > …And you know they are identified as undercover Russian troops getting there first - how? Don’t bother. He is just one of those “left-wing” Spaniards in the “know.” 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Batistuta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@Batistuta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batistuta)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 9:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/1642 "2014-03-20T21:47:14Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > And Russian military weapons not available elsewhere. Yup. But back to the point: I’m not convinced by the “Crimea asked for help so Putin had to step in” argument. Firstly because it’s a load of delusional bollocks, and secondly because it appears that Putin stepped in **before** Crimea officially asked for help. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/1643 "2014-03-20T21:53:16Z")
> [@Batistuta](#): > > Yup. But back to the point: I’m not convinced by the “Crimea asked for help so Putin had to step in” argument. Firstly because it’s a load of delusional bollocks, and secondly because it appears that Putin stepped in **before** Crimea officially asked for help. Somehow you forgot to mention there was no legal Gov in Kiev. Somehow. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Batistuta](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/58956e/32.png) [@Batistuta](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Batistuta)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/1644 "2014-03-20T21:54:29Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Somehow you forgot to mention there was no legal Gov in Kiev. > > Somehow. :rolleyes: How is that relevant? How would the chaos in Kiev allow Putin to breach Ukraine’s territorial integrity? I fail to see your point ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/1645 "2014-03-20T22:14:51Z")
> [@Batistuta](#): > > Thing is, Russian oligarchs are very fond of travelling to Europe and the USA. Take a walk around London and you’ll _feel_ the Russian money flowing, whether it is buying Picasso paintings or under-achieving football clubs. And if the “sanctions” were restricting this for “Russian oligarchs”, that would be something (although still feeble). The so-called “sanctions” right now are for what - 11 people, most of them government functionaries? Bullshit is right. > [@](#): > > Restrictions have also been placed on US trade with Rossiya Bank, which could also prove to be more relevant than we realise at the moment. Again, one bank? Out of how many? ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/1646 "2014-03-20T22:16:07Z")
> [@Batistuta](#): > > How is that relevant? How would the chaos in Kiev allow Putin to breach Ukraine’s territorial integrity? I fail to see your point I know. Though “refuse” would be a better descriptor, my good ‘left-wing’ Spanish friend. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/1647 "2014-03-20T22:21:26Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Actually, I figured it would surprise a warmogering poster. > > Unlike you of course. Ironically enough, it seemed you were the one surprised, while this ‘warmogering poster’…er, that’s right, it wasn’t REALLY directed at me, right?..while I wasn’t surprised at all. In fact, I doubt GW would have resorted to the use of military in this either, and would have been surprised if he’d done anything along those lines either, let alone that Obama didn’t. The US has no real military stake in any of this, and I doubt a military option was or would ever have been seriously considered…well, by most people anyway. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/1648 "2014-03-20T22:28:45Z")
> [@XT](#): > > I know who is more self deluded. I bet most in this thread can figure that out as well. Gonzomax…er, sorry, I mean NFBW…certainly would be on your side, though, so that much be a great comfort to you. Such incapacity of challenging my facts and arguments directly has left you resorting to lumping me and otherd into a group that you with no merit think are self-deluded. That’s a personal insult and nothing more. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/1649 "2014-03-20T22:37:06Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > Such incapacity of challenging my facts and arguments directly has left you resorting to lumping me and otherd into a group that you with no merit think are self-deluded. > > That’s a personal insult and nothing more. Says one of the people throwing “Russophobe” around. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/1650 "2014-03-20T22:39:59Z")
> [@Batistuta](#): > > Well, either they’re undercover Russian troops, or a bunch of Ukrainians stole dozens of Russian military vehicles and drove into Crimea. Putin never tried too hard to disguise his troops, although he did deny any connection with them. In not saying you are wrong about the dates the trucks with Russian license plates were filmed but could you find the dates on those reports as compared to February 26th which is the date you have identified in your argument. And I’ve seen no ban on The Russian Navy loaning some trucks to kindred folk who think they found the right moment to secede because of the unconstitutional mess in Kiev at the time. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/1651 "2014-03-20T22:45:42Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Ironically enough, it seemed you were the one surprised, while this ‘warmogering poster’…er, that’s right, it wasn’t REALLY directed at me, right?..while I wasn’t surprised at all. In fact, I doubt GW would have resorted to the use of military in this either, and would have been surprised if he’d done anything along those lines either, let alone that Obama didn’t. The US has no real military stake in any of this, and I doubt a military option was or would ever have been seriously considered…well, by most people anyway. _Nothing_ surprises me out of your continuous torrent of squealing “USA! USA!” posts. But hey! I don’t know of any law that prohibits wearing star-spangled blinders while writing. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/1652 "2014-03-20T22:50:11Z")
> [@NotfooledbyW](#): > > In not saying you are wrong about the dates the trucks with Russian license plates were filmed but could you find the dates on those reports as compared to February 26th which is the date you have identified in your argument. And I’ve seen no ban on The Russian Navy loaning some trucks to kindred folk who think they found the right moment to secede because of the unconstitutional mess in Kiev at the time. …while sloppily painting over the military insignia and loaning the “kindred folk” guns as well. Sure! Absolutely no reason to suspect anything there. You’re really reaching here. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/1653 "2014-03-20T22:50:59Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Says one of the people throwing “Russophobe” around. Russophobia is a general term not directed personally to anyone by name or in particular. And it is seen as a manifestation underlying the arguments presented. I present an argument that counters a Russophobic world view. Those whom fear Russia as many say they do should not be averse to linking it to a phobia. XT explicitly tied ‘NFBW’ to a group he considers to be self deluded in a post where I was not involved. Do you see the difference? ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/1654 "2014-03-20T22:55:37Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > …while sloppily painting over the military insignia and loaning the “kindred folk” guns as well. Sure! Absolutely no reason to suspect anything there. You’re really reaching here. Follow the exchange please. The issue is about the date the trucks appeared. Not whether they were Russian. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/1655 "2014-03-20T22:57:51Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > Apparently, they are being denied citizenship. [The Amnesty International site says](https://www.amnesty.org/en/region/estonia/report-2013) This is an old story, and frankly one that doesn’t concern me. Estonia is hardly the only country that requires language proficiency for citizenship. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/1656 "2014-03-20T22:57:54Z")
> [@RedFury](#): > > Actually, I figured it would surprise a warmogering poster. > > Unlike you of course. RedFury, I’m giving you a warning for this post. Could fall under insults, hijacking or maybe something else, but it’s earned a warning. The rest of you? Can the posts about other posters. You’ve got the biggest foreign policy crisis of the last ten years to pick apart…stick with that or else. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/1657 "2014-03-20T22:59:00Z")
ETA: Mod is rightfully getting tense, so no point in this reply. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/1658 "2014-03-20T23:00:55Z")
ETA: Again, going to retract this. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2014, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/1659 "2014-03-20T23:02:36Z")
And since I’m here. Artemi - and the rest of you - I want to see no further posts like the below. Such may be grounds for either warning or my deciding that this thread is out of steam. Let’s make sure that’s clear. [quote=“Artemi, post:1619, topic:682513”] Here is some Ukraine democracy. Maidaners are beating the police in Kiev. Svoboda members pulling on the director of the first Ukrainian channel to sign off his duty. Ukraine police interrogation by maidan volunteers. A man interrogation by maidan volunteers. An attempted murder of a deputy in Myrhorod, Ukraine, (10:00) [![]( " - YouTube") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-jjVjajfHw) Automaidan activists attempt to racket the Lucoil director. Maidaner is beating the woman near the maidan. [/QUOTE] ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2014, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513/1660 "2014-03-21T00:23:56Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > RedFury, I’m giving you a warning for this post. Could fall under insults, hijacking or maybe something else, but it’s earned a warning… May want to read _the exception_ to that label was _ **precisely** _ **XT**. But OK, I’ll take the unwarranted hit. Had to happen when the USA’s “honor” is at stake. Thin line to skate… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=82) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-has-invaded-ukraine-how-will-the-west-respond/682513.md?page=84)