# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/181 "2022-02-25T20:41:36Z")
That seems to be pretty much what I said. I didn’t have access to the article of course and it was just something I read earlier so I hadn’t looked it up. Assuming you think that whatever the actual source was at the Washington Post is accurate of course, which, again, no idea. It does seem to be in keeping with what their state-run media has done in the past, however, and these sorts of accidental leaks seem to happen fairly often in their system because they don’t seem to really care that much about it getting out. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/182 "2022-02-25T20:44:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > \*Russia has not yet taken any population centers. This is believable because of other reports that morale is low amongst the Russian troops and people at home. There are many potential Groznys in Ukraine if they try to force their way into cities. However, even if true, this is still a mixed bag because it shows that Putin knows that they would not be able to take the population centers, and thus has already committed to a long, drawn-out siege war, which portends a lot of starvation and other ills for the Ukrainians. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/183 "2022-02-25T20:46:35Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > However, even if true, this is still a mixed bag because it shows that Putin knows that they would not be able to take the population centers, and thus has already committed to a long, drawn-out siege war, which portends a lot of starvation and other ills for the Ukrainians. I have to wonder if Europe would allow this and not lift a hand, though. Sieges like in WWII with hundreds of thousands potentially starving right on their doorstep? I can’t believe that even Putin thinks this would be a good idea. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/184 "2022-02-25T20:49:30Z")
These Russian vehicles look lost. Have we cut off their GPS? [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/jWGwRW5tbqA/maxresdefault.jpg "Russian tanks filmed entering Ukraine's capital Kyiv - BBC News") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWGwRW5tbqA) ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/185 "2022-02-25T20:53:01Z")
OT, but isn’t China’s claim on Taiwan and Moscow’s claim on Ukraine more recent than Holland’s claim on Manhattan? ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/186 "2022-02-25T20:53:40Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > What makes it more likely the Pentagon would lie now? The previous aim was to prevent Russia from setting up a false flag event that allowed them to change their training mission into a, plausibly, justified attack. The better they could sell their motivation for attacking, the fewer nations that would sanction them and the less aid that Ukraine would get. Now that Russia has attacked, the main goal would be to help Ukraine fight. That means keeping Ukrainian fighters high on morale and making Russia look particularly evil/nasty, to help bring in allies on sanctions. That Russia hasn’t done anything notably horrific yet and the numbers of dead are in the 100s are probably a conscious choice by Russian military to go slowly and carefully so as to not give the West any good travesty fodder to distribute. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/187 "2022-02-25T21:00:47Z")
China doesn’t have a claim on Taiwan, at least the CCP government doesn’t. Taiwan wasn’t part of China since the last dynasty (Japan had taken it in the late 1800s), and it wasn’t given back to the Republic of China until 1945. It was never part of the CCP. Moscow’s claim on Ukraine is similar. AFAIK, the Russian Federation never possessed Ukraine, it was part of the old Soviet Union which dissolved. Neither of these facts mean that those in charge (Xi and Putin in this case) don’t THINK they have a claim, of course. As for Holland’s claim on Manhattan, at least they aren’t moving into position for an invasion (or, in Russia’s case invading) to take it back. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/188 "2022-02-25T21:46:48Z")
given that the ucraine has no real chance to stop the events on a military level, wouldn’t it be best to switch over to “urban guerrilla warfare” once the russians move into the cities? … they have expended some 18.000 rifles/AK47s? to civilians … now if you move into a scenario where you randomnly start snipering off russian soldiers in the bigger urban zones? I mean Putin having to send back to their families every night some 100 killed soldiers would get old really fast in russia, where the “mothers of soldiers” seem to be a - historically - very vocal group… (having said that, at the same time it pains me to no end to suggest shooting 18 year old conscripts/boys that might have no idea or say on where life/Putin put them) damn war! ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/189 "2022-02-25T21:49:46Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > "Also noting they didn’t know they were brought in to Ukraine to kill Ukrainians. > > “They thought they were doing something else there.” What, a freaking picnic with some mushroom gathering? > [@XT](#): > > They don’t have that much modern equipment, and like I said earlier (in one of these threads) they also have a very limited pipeline for new equipment. Even new old stuff is pretty limited wrt replacement, so every piece of equipment they lose is going to hurt them a lot more than it would, say, the US. Ukraine, of course, is in the same boat as Russia wrt replacing things like tanks and APCs. One of the saddest things I can remember seeing from about 8 or 9 years back was pic of the once great Soviet red Banner Fleet rusting at the pier. They shut everything down and walked off ☹ > [@DesertDog](#): > > > [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > > > From the few Finnish that I’ve spoken to, I have the feeling like if you told them that they were free to come down and shoot at Russian military, they’d buy their own plane tickets. > > Hell, [Simo Häyhä](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simo_H%C3%A4yh%C3%A4) would probably walk down if he was still around. Afghans of a certain age would probably join in ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/190 "2022-02-25T22:16:55Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > > [@Atamasama](#): > > > > "Also noting they didn’t know they were brought in to Ukraine to kill Ukrainians. > > > > “They thought they were doing something else there.” > > What, a freaking picnic with some mushroom gathering? After Moscow girls make you sing and shout, who wouldn’t want to get knocked out by Ukraine girls? ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Hedonia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ann_hedonia/32/319_2.png) [@Ann\_Hedonia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Hedonia)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/191 "2022-02-25T22:32:24Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Yeah, I did…several times. But sure (it’s behind a paywall which I don’t have access to), [here](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/22/china-russia-ukraine-reaction/). You can also google it and get 2nd hand accounts of the story, but I don’t know how credible any of them are either. It’s not a Twitter/Facebook made up story though, afaict. ETA, [here](https://news.yahoo.com/chinese-news-outlet-accidentally-leaked-211350671.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAIwr3CRVCoVhR3emEr_IgTCVXkSOpz9WH_mxisF3kXPLXBSlLDSmCrR_wX2OJj1c_K-3rXh6HIPbSeU3-b71zMIT6SQAsW170A0ByQQ8CaulAfpnCqYTdgOKTkG0J3Vbn-2nBt5aToZJmIdUUGL5hVBDf335ov7GdYjywte6Kfrm) is one from Yahoo!news (again, no idea how credible). I’ll just quote the title: > > > [@](#): > > > > # A Chinese news outlet accidentally leaked its own censorship instructions on Russia-Ukraine coverage: report Here’s a free link to the WaPo story, gifted from my account > **[China keeps walking its tightrope between Russia and the West as tensions...](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/22/china-russia-ukraine-reaction/?pwapi_token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWJpZCI6IjQ1Njg4NzciLCJyZWFzb24iOiJnaWZ0IiwibmJmIjoxNjQ1ODI4MjM5LCJpc3MiOiJzdWJzY3JpcHRpb25zIiwiZXhwIjoxNjQ3MDM3ODM5LCJpYXQiOjE2NDU4MjgyMzksImp0aSI6IjdlODkzMzI2LThkYmYtNDRiZi04MzJkLTAzNmQ3MDAxMDdhNiIsInVybCI6Imh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lndhc2hpbmd0b25wb3N0LmNvbS93b3JsZC8yMDIyLzAyLzIyL2NoaW5hLXJ1c3NpYS11a3JhaW5lLXJlYWN0aW9uLyJ9.1q4l2iOb-_opVLfIuUptdGOKBA0N8pc9S00QLcdS5fc&itid=gfta)** > > China wants Russia’s backing in its own disputes with the United States, but noninterference in other nations' sovereignty is one of its core foreign policy principles. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/192 "2022-02-25T22:56:57Z")
The UN just held a vote condemning Russia. Obviously Russia vetoed but China abstained (as did India and one other although I didn’t see who). Everyone else voted in favour. Ironically, Russia holds the chair so the Russian representative had to introduce the motion. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/b77776/32.png) [@Paul\_was\_in\_Saudi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_was_in_Saudi)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/193 "2022-02-25T23:24:03Z")
I have been browsing Reddit & whatnot. People are talking about peace. What we need is victory. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [February 25, 2022, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/194 "2022-02-25T23:46:23Z")
The other abstaining nation at the Security Council was the United Arab Emirates which is actually quite something since they are supposed to be allies of the US. However they are also a member of OPEC+ alongside Russia, so you know, oil. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 12:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/195 "2022-02-26T00:26:56Z")
The hacking group Anonymous has hacked and leaked the Russian Ministry of Defence’s database including the private details of its officials. [https://cybernews.com/news/anonymous-leaks-database-of-the-russian-ministry-of-defence/](https://cybernews.com/news/anonymous-leaks-database-of-the-russian-ministry-of-defence/) Meanwhile Anonymous also hacked a Russian municipal website and posted the video of the Ukrainian President’s appeal to Russian citizens. But possibly the thing that will get the biggest rise out of some Russians might be from Pornhub, who blocked Russian users from accessing its content, instead displaying the Ukrainian flag and posting a message of support. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/196 "2022-02-26T00:43:48Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > But possibly the thing that will get the biggest rise out of some Russians might be from Pornhub, who blocked Russian users from accessing its content, instead displaying the Ukrainian flag and posting a message of support. It looks like Russians will have to find their big rises somewhere else. ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/197 "2022-02-26T00:53:28Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > But possibly the thing that will get the biggest rise out of some Russians might be from Pornhub, who blocked Russian users from accessing its content, instead displaying the Ukrainian flag and posting a message of support. Talk about hitting below the belt! ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/198 "2022-02-26T02:58:28Z")
> [@XT](#): > > …they will need Russia’s support and understanding when they deal with the Taiwan issue, once and for all. Just in case anyone thinks that the Chinese aren’t watching all of this and the west’s reaction with a keen eye. I don’t know about Taiwan, per se – it’s still too much of a hot button – but I fully expect some more action in the East China Sea. If China can get hegemony there a free Taiwan will become much less tenable down the line. As always, they play the long game, not just the next election cycle. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/199 "2022-02-26T03:00:01Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > But possibly the thing that will get the biggest rise out of some Russians might be from Pornhub, who blocked Russian users from accessing its content, instead displaying the Ukrainian flag and posting a message of support. This could conceivably be The One Thing that makes Putin loosen his grip. [Ahem] ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [February 26, 2022, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/200 "2022-02-26T03:08:26Z")
The Russians have now fired on Japanese and Moldovan flagged ships in the Black Sea. > **[Ukraine says two commercial ships hit by Russian missiles near Odessa port](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/moldovan-flagged-tanker-hit-by-missile-ukraine-coast-2022-02-25/)** > > Ukraine said Russian warships shelled a Moldovan-flagged chemical tanker and a Panamanian-flagged cargo ship due to load grain near Odessa port in the Black Sea on Friday, one day after Russia began a full-scale invasion of Ukraine. Who had “Third Russo-Japanese War” on their bingo card? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=11)