# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news
**Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 114
### Author:  [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2022, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2261 "2022-03-14T01:39:07Z")
‘Advance’ is the term used to describe Russian actions in the Intelligence Bulletin that you posted. Why do you post that bulletin, and then conclude that Ukrainian loss of territory constitutes “winning” ?
---
### Author:  [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2022, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2262 "2022-03-14T02:06:52Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#):
>
> Gabbard is almost certainly paid by Russia to advance their interests. She’s been spewing their propaganda for years. Nobody considers her a reliable source of information.
Thanks to everyone who pointed this out. I should have remembered that.
---
### Author:  [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2022, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2263 "2022-03-14T02:36:57Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> BBC:
>
> > [@](#):
> >
> > Asked about media reports that Russia was asking China for military help, a spokesperson for the Chinese embassy in Washington says Beijing is focused on keeping the war in Ukraine from “getting out of control”.
> >
> > > Reuters quoted embassy spokesperson Liu Pengyu as saying that “the situation in Ukraine is indeed disconcerting”.
> > >
> > > “The high priority now is to prevent the tense situation escalating or even getting out of control,” he said.
> > >
> > > Earlier on Sunday, the Financial Times and a number of other media outlets reported that US officials believe Russia has requested Chinese military supplies to help with the war effort, as well as economic support.
> > >
> > > When asked about the reports, the spokesperson said that he “never heard of that”.
More about this from NYT (gift link). The US and China have much to discuss:
> **[Russia Asked China for Military and Economic Aid for Ukraine War, U.S....](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/03/13/us/politics/russia-china-ukraine.html?unlocked_article_code=AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACEIPuomT1JKd6J17Vw1cRCfTTMQmqxCdw_PIxftm3iWka3DODm8ZiPkORJCH_0bRZKF4IMEuxC-aTZpKML4pTblvzfVWPkpgDQm0p5_O0LI0HxIIk6PhFGUnw8CKGrki7T7hamT-cL0nmLC0s0rDbWXuXLjY1Sd3OAY29cR6dl2t3HELkqvPGu93ycA-ial6fu1yQzcFYCaOt_f6WV4paJjdMEaqukRhUPpZWDrTgded97oGFQxSAljGR35-in0uvJIeYJhEefaicGNzPZb2kr4TCWd3LYq2B5dXRoPclb5itLSlugWGtEplzGYs-cucVe7LCIZ2&smid=url-share)**
>
> Jake Sullivan, the U.S. national security adviser, plans to meet with a top Chinese official on Monday in Rome to discuss the war and China’s role.
---
### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2022, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2264 "2022-03-14T03:34:24Z")
Here’s a table showing a list of the cities of Ukraine that have over 100,000 population (2021 estimate).
Blue are Ukraine-controlled cities, red are those cities in Crimea and eastern Ukraine that were in control of Russia or pro-Russia separatists before the 2022 invasion, and orange are the cities that the Russians have captured since the invasion started.
[ ](https://i.imgur.com/VbSlIlH.png)
The rate at which the Russian war machine is being degraded makes many observers feel it unrealistic that they will be able to capture enough of these cities, especially the large ones, to achieve victory, let alone hold them in the longer term against a populace that doesn’t want them there.
---
### Author:  [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2022, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2265 "2022-03-14T03:46:32Z")
Kyiv is worth fifteen other cities. It’s about whether or not they can cut it off and take it. IT’s not just the symbolism of it, though that’s a big deal; it is, as one can see just by looking at a map, of immense positional strategic importance. If they can’t take it, they cannot conquer Ukraine.
---
### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2022, 3:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2266 "2022-03-14T03:54:41Z")
> [@romansperson](#):
>
> More about this from NYT (gift link). The US and China have much to discuss:
China could stop this war tomorrow if they chose to.
Unfortunately, China will do what China feels will benefit them the most. It will be up to the US representatives to convince China that the biggest benefit will accrue to them if they tell Russia that if they don’t leave Ukraine now, China will cut off all imports and exports to them, starting tomorrow.
---
### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2022, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2267 "2022-03-14T04:44:33Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#):
>
> Could you provide a cite?
[level 1 and 2 lab information from US Embassy](https://ua.usembassy.gov/embassy/kyiv/sections-offices/defense-threat-reduction-office/biological-threat-reduction-program/)
I think they were talking about it on Meet the Press. The expectation was the destruction of any samples to prevent release for propaganda purposes.
---
### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2022, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2268 "2022-03-14T04:46:20Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> China could stop this war tomorrow if they chose to.
Serious question, how? Economic sanctions?
---
### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2022, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2269 "2022-03-14T04:57:01Z")
It’s in China’s interest to let Russia waste itself as brokenly as possible, then go over to destroyed-Russia and negotiate hard with them to buy massive amounts of minerals - maybe even cede some big land - on the cheap.
---
### Author:  [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2022, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2270 "2022-03-14T05:21:50Z")
I agree, a Russia with a broken military, internal divison , and nowhere to sell its stuff or spend its money other than with China is all good news for China.
---
### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2022, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2271 "2022-03-14T05:21:51Z")
Yes. If China joined the rest of the world in sanctions… with teeth, no exceptions…. Russia would either leave Ukraine or be faced with a North Korea level economy at best.
---
### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2022, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2272 "2022-03-14T05:22:31Z")
I am afraid you are absolutely right.
---
### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2022, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2273 "2022-03-14T05:27:00Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> Yes. If China joined the rest of the world in sanctions… with teeth, no exceptions…. Russia would either leave Ukraine or be faced with a North Korea level economy at best.
With the current sanctions involving world banks Russia is already toast. China can sit back and watch it happen. After all, Putin did them a solid by waiting for the Olympics to end before invading Ukraine.
If China gets sucked into this and gets sanctioned for it then Taiwan is next up in the batter’s box.
---
### Author:  [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2022, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2274 "2022-03-14T05:34:45Z")
> [@Precambrianmollusc](#):
>
> I agree, a Russia with a broken military, internal divison , and nowhere to sell its stuff or spend its money other than with China is all good news for China.
Putin is not acting rationally so what you’re left with is a wounded animal backed into a corner.
---
### Author:  [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2022, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2275 "2022-03-14T05:36:33Z")
Kyiv is large. It’s 840 km2 (320 sq. miles), with a wide, deep river flowing through the middle. Surrounding or capturing it is easier said than done.
For comparison New York City is 300 sq. miles.
As I’ve pointed out a few times, Kharkiv is far smaller and far easier to surround or capture, but the Russians haven’t been able to do so, despite massive efforts.
Ukraine doesn’t believe it’s possible for the Russians to capture Kyiv, and there’s no reason to think they’re wrong.
---
### Author:  [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2022, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2276 "2022-03-14T06:09:00Z")
The Russians are getting desperate.
They have totally failed to get Belarus to enter the war, despite having a puppet government in charge.
Now they are trying to get mercenaries from Syria, and more military contactors. The Russian army apparently has no more troops they can send in, since half their army consists of short-term conscripts.
Asking China for military supplies? What kind of major power runs out of military supplies after two weeks of war?
China’s [reaction](https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2022-03-13/chinese-embassy-says-has-never-heard-of-russian-requests-for-ukraine-help):
🙉 ‘Sorry, can’t hear you’.
---
### Author:  [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2022, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2277 "2022-03-14T09:41:52Z")
Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov has [joined Chechen forces](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/chechen-leader-kadyrov-says-he-travelled-ukraine-2022-03-13/) fighting alongside the Russians in Ukraine.
He’s made a career out of ruling by terror, organizing the killing of gay men, as well as dissidents at home and abroad. He and his thug associates encourage “honor” killings and forced marriages.
> **[Ramzan Kadyrov](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ramzan_Kadyrov#Accusations_of_human_rights_abuses)**
>
> Pages for logged out editors learn more
>
>
>
> Ramzan Akhmadovich Kadyrov\[b\] (born 5 October 1976) is a Russian politician who currently serves as the Head of the Chechen Republic. He was formerly affiliated to the Chechen Independence movement, through his father who was the separatist appointed mufti of Chechnya. He is a colonel general in the Russian military.
---
### Author:  [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2022, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2278 "2022-03-14T11:14:11Z")
If the link is accurate, he’s just there meeting with his field commanders to help coordinate. He’s not actually fighting himself.
It sure would be nice if he got killed, though. He’s literally one of the worst human beings on the planet.
---
### Author:  [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2022, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2279 "2022-03-14T12:31:12Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#):
>
> Hell, it took the U.S. 19 days to capture Baghdad in 2003.
To be fair, the US only lost 139 troops during the initial invasion of Iraq, and we did capture Baghdad. Russia has now lost many thousands of troops, and they haven’t yet captured the Ukraine capital.
---
### Author:  [@Capn\_Carl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capn_Carl)
#### Post date: [March 14, 2022, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2280 "2022-03-14T13:14:37Z")
A month ago, your chart would have no cities in orange. Now it does. That’s not “winning”.
A month ago, another chart of Ukrainian cities that have been bombarded would have no cities in orange. Now it would. That’s not “winning”.
Similar charts could be made for cities that have been evacuated, or cities that lack basic facilities, but you get my point.
[Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=113)
[Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=115)