# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 125
**Author:** ![I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/i_love_me_vol.i/32/521_2.png) [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/I_Love_Me_Vol.I)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2481 "2022-03-16T05:09:20Z")
> [@bump](#): > > But even on the low end, 3000 killed + 9000 wounded in 3 weeks is pretty significant for an army of about 325,000 (Russian Ground Forces + Russian Airborne Forces). It’s about 3.7% of the entire army… in two weeks, and likely concentrated in the actual rifle companies and tank companies. Where are all these bodies? We’ve seen photos of dead Russian soldiers left behind on the battlefield. Those don’t give me the sense the Russians are retrieving their KIAs, or at least not all of them. So where are all these thousands of bodies? Or perhaps the Russian Army _has_ in fact been diligent about recovering their dead but still… with all the cameras in every phone, how can there not be video of scores or even hundreds of dead Russians? ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2482 "2022-03-16T05:25:08Z")
> [@](#): > > The bodies of Russian soldiers killed in battle in Ukraine are filling up morgues in Belarus, local residents told RFE/RL. > > Russian soldiers killed in battle are being brought by truck to the morgues and then sent back to Russia by train or plane, residents said. > > Residents described the horror of seeing the bodies loaded on a train at Mazyr for transfer back to Russia. > > “The number of bodies was unbelievably large. People at the Mazyr station were simply shocked by the number of bodies being put on the train,” a local resident in Mazyr told RFE/RL. > > The morgues in Homel and Naroulia are also filled up, according to local residents. > > Belarusian doctors have been threatened with the loss of their job if they are caught spreading information about the dead and injured Russian soldiers. > **[Bodies of Russian Soldiers Filling Up Belarusian Morgues, Residents Say](https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-belarus-morgue-soldiers/31750455.html)** > > The bodies of Russian soldiers killed in battle in Ukraine are filling up morgues in Belarus, local residents told RFE/RL. There are also as yet unproven claims of mobile crematoriums. > **[Is Russia Using Mobile Crematoriums to Hide Evidence of Casualties in Ukraine?](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/russia-mobile-crematoriums/)** > > The crematoriums were reportedly in use in 2015, as well. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2483 "2022-03-16T05:35:08Z")
> [@I\_Love\_Me\_Vol.I](#): > > Where are all these bodies? Watch the [video in this BBC article](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60693166) I posted a few days ago (scroll down for video). There are a number of Russian bodies lying in the snow, and the Ukrainian soldiers say they will ‘leave them there for the dogs’. ---
**Author:** ![Bootb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e19b73/32.png) [@Bootb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bootb)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 5:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2484 "2022-03-16T05:45:40Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > The new mayor is a former city councillor, said to have been installed by the Russian invaders. > > Her inaugeral statement: I guess she’s the first “candidate” to throw her hat in the ring for the position of Quisling. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2485 "2022-03-16T07:05:00Z")
[![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/bHzHlSLhtmM/maxresdefault.jpg "Ukraine National Anthem English lyrics") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHzHlSLhtmM) The lyrics of the Ukrainian national anthem are particularly appropriate and moving at this time, even though it was written in the 1860s. Ukraine has a centuries-long history of uprisings, rebellions, and struggles for independence. ---
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2486 "2022-03-16T07:33:49Z")
UK Defence Intelligence update: [![](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FN84OusWUAUHztQ?format=jpg&name=small) ](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FN84OusWUAUHztQ?format=jpg&name=small) ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2487 "2022-03-16T12:25:32Z")
> [@Capn\_Carl](#): > > The chart isn’t predictive. Had the chart been made a month ago, before the war, it would show no cities in orange because none had been captured. This is meaningless. You originally posted that because there are some cities in orange, e.g., that the Russians have captured, that the Ukrainians are not winning. That’s not true. We don’t know if the Russians are winning yet. Before the war there were zero cities captured and now there are cities which are captured (which should be so obvious that I’m not sure why it’s being pointed out), but that doesn’t tell us if the Russians are winning. It was expected that the Russians would capture cities. However, the pace they are capturing the cities is so much slower than expected there apparently are real questions if they can actually win before the get bogged down completely. The Ukrainians don’t have to prevent all cities from becoming captured, they just have to prevent enough cities that they can continue the fight and eventually the Russians will not be able to continue the war. The sanctions are hurting the Russian economy, the US and allies are providing military aid to the Ukrainians and there are other factors which make it difficult to predict exactly who will win this. But because some cities have been captured, this does not mean that Ukraine isn’t winning. The argument is being made by some people that they are. I don’t know enough to say myself, but it would take a better argument that a few cities have fallen to disprove that. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2488 "2022-03-16T12:43:07Z")
Zelinsky’s video address to Congress is at 9 AM this morning ET. The CNN website will be streaming it with open access (no sign-in required). ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2489 "2022-03-16T13:09:58Z")
The Russians keep pushing and pushing boundaries. NATO doesn’t respond? This may not end well. Appeasement usually doesn’t work. Imho > [@](#): > > BRUSSELS—The crossing of Russian drones into the airspace of NATO countries is emerging as a test of the alliance’s red lines and its support to Ukraine in repelling Russian invaders [without triggering a wider war](https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-wests-challenge-helping-ukraine-without-firing-on-russians-11646834311?mod=article_inline). > > Ukraine’s military said Tuesday it downed a Russian drone as the unmanned aerial vehicle returned after crossing into Polish airspace. Russia hasn’t commented on the incident. Earlier this week, another drone suspected of belonging to the Russian military crashed in Romania. Allied officials have said they are studying the incident. Link: [Russian Drone Flights Into NATO Skies Test Alliance’s Red Lines - WSJ](https://www.wsj.com/articles/russian-drone-flights-into-nato-skies-test-alliances-red-lines-11647426550) ---
**Author:** ![Wrenching\_Spanners](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ecb155/32.png) [@Wrenching\_Spanners](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrenching_Spanners)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2490 "2022-03-16T13:50:00Z")
> [@XT](#): > > It was just surprising to me that Indians had volunteered to go and fight in Ukraine. Most of the other countries on that chart make sense, but India? Hell, even the Israeli volunteers make a bit more sense (though that’s another head-scratcher) than Indian volunteers. > > My sense of the Indian social media is that even those who are against the invasion are mainly all for keeping India neutral…this isn’t their fight (the narrative goes), and Russia has always been a friend while the west…hasn’t. Plus, it’s not in their neck of the woods, and they should be focused on stuff happening in their area, not a European conflict they have nothing to do with. Ukraine had a large population of foreign students before the war, and quite a lot of those students were from India. Past students may have stayed in Ukraine or gone to nearby countries after graduating, rather than return to India. Not to mention other Indian nationals in/around Ukraine for other reasons. It may be that those Indians in the International Legion in Ukraine were already there or nearby rather than Indian residents who left India to join up. (76,000 foreign students, 20,000 of whom were Indian according to the BBC.) [Ukraine: Why so many African and Indian students were in the country - BBC News](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-60603226#:~:text=Ukraine%20was%20home%20to%20over,portion%20with%20over%2020%2C000%20students). ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2491 "2022-03-16T13:54:02Z")
Makes sense, and I did know there were a lot of Indian (and Chinese for that matter) students in Ukraine. It’s been a thing, especially the difference between how Taiwan got its people out verse the CCPs reaction and actions (or lack of them) wrt their own people. And I’ve seen a bunch of stories on Indian students and business people in Ukraine. Thanks for the info! ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2492 "2022-03-16T13:56:15Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The Russians keep pushing and pushing boundaries. NATO doesn’t respond? If a Russian drone crosses into NATO airspace it should, if possible, be destroyed by NATO. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2493 "2022-03-16T13:59:57Z")
Absolutely. Aircraft violating a countries airspace can be intercepted and possibly shot down. The Soviets shot down the US U2 spy plane in May 1960. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2494 "2022-03-16T14:02:56Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > But because some cities have been captured, this does not mean that Ukraine isn’t winning. The argument is being made by some people that they are. I don’t know enough to say myself, but it would take a better argument that a few cities have fallen to disprove that. I’d say the fairest assessment is that it’s a stalemate at this point. Russia has several cities under siege and continues to bombard several more. In the field, the Ukrainian army is still a viable fighting force, and still hitting the Russians hard in many areas. The Russians are still having the same logistics issues that have plagued them since the start, as well as just issues with coordination and combined arms operations. They still aren’t operating at night from what I’ve read. The lines haven’t substantially moved since last week, though part of that is the Russians are in a position to hit the cities they are clearly targeting with military operations. The Russian air forces still seem to be largely MIA. On the economic front, well, Russia hasn’t collapsed…and neither has Ukraine. Yet. Both sides are hurting economically. And Putin (and Zelenskyy) are still not dead. From a negotiating perspective, neither side seems closer to some sort of peace. I doubt the Ukrainians would be interested in a ceasefire since that would help the Russians, and the Russians, while they have slightly softened their initial position are still demanding more than the Ukrainians are willing to give. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2495 "2022-03-16T14:03:45Z")
I understand not wanting to escalate (and I don’t want this to escalate), but that seems like it should be a pretty clear red line to me. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2496 "2022-03-16T14:14:22Z")
Russian aircraft are always invading their neighbours airspace. It happens several times a year and the standard response is to escort them out. Russia does it to probe and test the readiness of their adversaries. For instance, between 2005 and 2015 Russian military aircraft and ships crossed into UK territory 33 times (sorry can’t find more recent figures). There’s a pdf about it here: [http://henryjacksonsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Incursions\_Revised\_FINAL.pdf](http://henryjacksonsociety.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Incursions_Revised_FINAL.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![Chad\_Sudan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chad_sudan/32/4509_2.png) [@Chad\_Sudan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chad_Sudan)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2497 "2022-03-16T14:21:54Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > Russian aircraft are always invading their neighbours airspace. It happens several times a year and the standard response is to escort them out. As drones, unlike planes, are unmanned, I can’t see anything controversial or provocative about shooting down an enemy drone that is over your territory. ---
**Author:** ![Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiendish_astronaut/32/3295_2.png) [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiendish_Astronaut)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2498 "2022-03-16T14:25:51Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > As drones, unlike aircraft, are unmanned, I can’t see anything controversial or provocative about shooting down an enemy drone that is over your territory. Agreed, absolutely they should be shot down. I was just saying that this is a Russian tactic and inferring that this was probably deliberate. Obviously sending fighters would be a bit too provocative and really might risk escalation. The fact Putin’s sending drones rather than aircraft, and that he announced that arms supplies were a valid tactic a day or two before striking that western Ukrainian base which they use to coordinate with NATO, shows to me that Putin is only willing to rattle NATO very carefully. He is not looking for a pretext to start a war with NATO. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2499 "2022-03-16T14:29:40Z")
Zelensky gives an inspiring speech. I hope it does some good. Cnn has some interesting insights. I am confused about a No Fly Zone. How would that defend against cruise missles? They’re launched from ships or land bases. A No Fly Zone only keeps aircraft from launching attacks. > **[Zelensky's address to Congress comes at cruel turning point of the Ukraine...](https://www.cnn.com/2022/03/16/politics/analysis-zelensky-appeal-to-americans-wednesday/index.html)** > > Rarely in modern times has a political leader matched his moment so bravely. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2500 "2022-03-16T14:31:48Z")
> [@Chad\_Sudan](#): > > As drones, unlike planes, are unmanned, I can’t see anything controversial or provocative about shooting down an enemy drone that is over your territory. I’m not sure that’s always a consideration. The Swedes would love (and have certainly attempted) to sink one of the manned Russian subs that frequently violate their waters. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=124) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=126)