# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 130
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2581 "2022-03-17T01:17:16Z")
> Social media users observed elements of Russia’s 58th Combined Arms Army based in Russia‘s proxy republic in Georgia, South Ossetia, redeploying in likely transit to Ukraine on March 15. Russia has already pulled forces from its base in Armenia and will likely soon redeploy forces from its base in Tajikistan. I’m not sure what the current status is of things in Georgia but that certainly seems like a risk to do. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2582 "2022-03-17T01:41:58Z")
Time now for any Georgian rebels or anti-Putin forces to make their move. No doubt this is why Putin is starting to threaten ethnic cleansing. I’m hoping that the people in these countries are starting to wonder: “Will we be next?” ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2583 "2022-03-17T01:45:54Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Wow. Those things are still in service? Dude, we’ve been using the M2 Browning 35 years longer than we’ve been using the Mk 19. If it ain’t broke then use it to kill the enemy. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2584 "2022-03-17T01:48:13Z")
Is it wrong of me to now really want a Mk 19? Preferably mounted like this one for all those jerks in traffic? [File:Mexican troops operating at a random checkpoint 2009.jpg - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mexican_troops_operating_at_a_random_checkpoint_2009.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2585 "2022-03-17T02:03:43Z")
Hope Australia would send some of its 200 Javelins to Ukraine. I also noticed in the Biden $800 million assistance package there was no mention of food or fuel. Those two things must be weighing heavily, even if less attention-getting than weapons. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2586 "2022-03-17T02:15:11Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > I also noticed in the Biden $800 million assistance package there was no mention of food or fuel. Part of getting spending packages through Congress is making sure the money spent goes into the pockets of constituents. Food and fuel is better sourced in Europe where there are few American voters. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2587 "2022-03-17T02:16:40Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > History does not record what Ian Fleming thought four times was. “Four times, it’s WE suck at opsec.” ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2588 "2022-03-17T02:25:10Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Wow. Those things are still in service? In service since 1968, Wikipedia says the Mk 19 is “currently in widespread use throughout the U.S. Armed Forces”, as well as with various other countries’ militaries. > **[Mk 19 grenade launcher](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mk_19_grenade_launcher)** > > The Mk 19 grenade launcher (pronounced Mark 19) is an American 40 mm belt-fed automatic grenade launcher that was first developed during the Vietnam War. > The Mk 19 is a belt-fed, blowback-operated, air-cooled, crew-served, fully-automatic weapon that is designed not to cook off. It fires 40 mm grenades at a cyclic rate of 325 to 375 rounds per minute, giving a practical rate of fire of 60 rounds per minute (rapid) and 40 rounds per minute (sustained). The weapon operates on the blowback principl... > [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > I suspect (with no evidence) that Russian troops are either tipping off Ukraine about where the generals are located, or are doing the deed themselves. One of the generals was allegedly shot by a sniper, but locations for this differ, so this may not be accurate account of his untimely demise. In addition to the four Russian generals, a couple of other notable commanders on the Russian side who have recently left this earth include a guy commanding a regiment of Chechens, who, perhaps inaccurately, has been described in the press as a “general”, and the commander of the DPR rebels’ “special forces” Sparta Battalion. > **[Casualties of the Russo-Ukrainian War](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War#Russian_and_DPR/LPR_military)** > > Casualties in the Russo-Ukrainian War included six deaths during the 2014 annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation, 14,200–14,400 military and civilian deaths during the war in Donbas, and up to 500,000 estimated casualties during the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine. > During the Russian annexation of Crimea from 23 February through 19 March 2014, six people were killed. The dead included three protesters, two Ukrainian soldiers and one Russian Cossack paramilitary. On 10 August 2016, R... > **[List of Russian generals killed during the Russian invasion of Ukraine](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Russian_generals_killed_during_the_2022_invasion_of_Ukraine)** > > A number of Russian general officers\[a\] have been killed during the Russian invasion of Ukraine. As of 28 November 2023, Ukrainian sources claimed that 16 Russian generals and 1 admiral had been killed during the invasion, while Russian sources have confirmed 7 deaths. Although seven of the Ukrainian claims were rebutted, the loss of even two general officers is rare. The scale of these losses is unprecedented since World War II. This has been attributed to Russian senior commanders goin Russi... (Wikipedia now has its own page for Russian generals killed during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine) > [@DesertDog](#): > > _Terminal Lance_ had something similar to say about the M240. As he said in his comment, “Barrels are replaceable… the moment is not.” > > [Going Cyclic - Terminal Lance](https://terminallance.com/2022/01/29/going-cyclic/) Of course, [YouTube has done this](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BczhT1ByrXA&ab_channel=WestCoastArmory). ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2589 "2022-03-17T02:28:33Z")
Are the generals’ wearing these? Because if so, I think I’ve found the problem. [![](https://www.soviet-power.com/image/cache/data/MarshallHatPov-600x315.jpg) ](https://www.soviet-power.com/image/cache/data/MarshallHatPov-600x315.jpg) ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2590 "2022-03-17T02:32:41Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Great guy, Stalin. Though we must admit, in the Great Clash, his was the vastly superior mustache. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2591 "2022-03-17T02:34:38Z")
Apparently giving the Ukrainians MiGs is off the table because it’s considered too provocative to fly them through NATO airspace to their destination. At least publicly. Any chance some covered flatcars are making their way to Ukraine, contents unknown? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2592 "2022-03-17T02:39:04Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > (Wikipedia now has its own page for Russian generals killed during the 2022 invasion of Ukraine) For the moment. It’s being discussed for deletion. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2593 "2022-03-17T02:50:52Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Apparently giving the Ukrainians MiGs is off the table because it’s considered too provocative to fly them through NATO airspace to their destination. > At least publicly. A subject that I’m sure came up when Zelensky met with Polish PM Morawiecki yesterday. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2594 "2022-03-17T03:25:00Z")
It’s really hitting me how social media (which everyone loves to make into a villain) is changing how $h!t gets handled. Decades ago, we didn’t have zillions of video uploads where ordinary ppl got to say, “Hey, yo, this some B.S. and we got you.” ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2595 "2022-03-17T03:26:55Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Any chance some covered flatcars are making their way to Ukraine, contents unknown? I’ve wondered if the PM visit by the neighboring countries was a distraction, while they slipped the planes in. Poland and the US saying that they couldn’t get the deal through doesn’t mean that they didn’t get the deal through. Usually, I trust that the public statements of the US government are relatively honest. In a war situation, though, that expectation isn’t safe. The MiGs could already be in Ukraine and flying merrily around. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2596 "2022-03-17T03:39:42Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > I’ve wondered if the PM visit by the neighboring countries was a distraction, while they slipped the planes in. Heck, figure out how to disassemble them enough to fit on the trains carrying the PMs and get them in that way. (No, I have no evidence whatsoever that this happened, but it’s fun to speculate). ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2597 "2022-03-17T04:03:17Z")
This is a interesting development. Maybe they won’t send arms to Russia? Guardian live blog > [@](#): > > ## China ‘will never attack Ukraine’, praises Ukrainian unity and resistance > > China’s ambassador to [Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine) has praised the Ukraine’s unity and resistance in remarks which appear to contradict the country’s earlier stance. > > Fan Xianrong said China “will never attack Ukraine” but will support it economically and politically during a meeting with Lviv’s regional military administration, Ukrainian media outlet [Ukrinform](https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-polytics/3430195-china-will-never-attack-ukraine-ambassador-assures.html) reported, citing the administration’s press service. > > > China will never attack Ukraine, we will help, in particular in the economic direction. > > > > In this situation, which you have now, we will act responsibly. We have seen how **great the unity of the Ukrainian people is, and that means its strength.** > > Lviv’s governor of the regional military administration, Maksym Kozytskiy, also confirmed the meeting in a [statement](https://www.facebook.com/kozytskyy.maksym.official/posts/358088016325774) earlier this week, ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2598 "2022-03-17T04:22:59Z")
I do wonder how sympathetic being a diplomat to a nation makes one to that nation. I’m envisioning the Chinese delegation to Russia, and Chinese delegation to Ukraine, quarreling with each other on the Ukraine matter. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2599 "2022-03-17T05:02:19Z")
Regarding the curious presence of so many high-ranking Russians in and around the front lines: It’s been discussed, in this thread and others, that decision-making in the Russian military is extremely top-down. Lower-ranking field officers are not empowered with flexibility; they are expected to adhere to their received orders and cannot adapt to fluid situations. Compare the American doctrine, where front-line commanders are given an objective and the rules of engagement, and figure out the solution on their own. In circumstances like these, it makes sense that the Russians would need to have the top guys right there on the spot, looking at the battlefield and making hour-to-hour decisions about how to rewrite strategy on the fly. And it also makes sense that it would be easy for Ukrainian observers to identify them, because they’ll be at the center of lots of comings-and-goings, as intelligence arrives and orders are dispatched. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 17, 2022, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2600 "2022-03-17T05:26:05Z")
One longterm problem mentioned on Reddit: It’s possible that, in the years and decades ahead, Russia will become so poor and desperate that it will no longer be able to maintain satisfactory security over each of its 6,000+ nuclear warheads. The odds of some rogue guy with the means selling a few nukes on the black market go up. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=129) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=131)