# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 140
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2781 "2022-03-19T22:07:20Z")
> [@romansperson](#): > > This is going to be so ugly, for so long. > > [x.com](https://twitter.com/NeilPHauer/status/1505265888563453959) Bill Maudlin was a cartoonist serving in the United States Army in the 45th Division during World War II. He’s most famous for his cartoons depicting two dog faced infantry soldiers named Willie and Joe. In 1945, his book _Up Front_ was published which featured both his cartoons and some observations he made of the war. One of the things Bill hated was reading in civilian news sources that they weren’t at a war with the Germans but were instead fighting against Hitler and the Nazis. He wrote something like, “Other than a crack SS Division, I didn’t see any Nazis in Italy.” He was of the opinion that they were fighting Germans not just Hitler or the Nazis. i.e. He blamed Germans for the war not just one party or person. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2782 "2022-03-19T22:17:47Z")
Certainly many German were complicit, but not _all_ Germans were. We really don’t want to start hate campaigns against anyone anywhere of Russian ethnicity. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2783 "2022-03-19T22:18:25Z")
Key ISW assessment quote: > [@](#): > > Ukrainian forces have defeated the initial Russian campaign of this war. That campaign aimed to conduct airborne and mechanized operations to seize Kyiv, Kharkiv, Odesa, and other major Ukrainian cities to force a change of government in Ukraine. That campaign has culminated. Russian forces continue to make limited advances in some parts of the theater but are very unlikely to be able to seize their objectives in this way. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2784 "2022-03-19T22:19:30Z")
I think that this will be a difficult feeling for many people to fight, at a gut level. I, one hand, find myself thinking along the “fuck Russia and Russians for what they’re doing to the world” versus a rational understanding that it’s actually an extremely small percentage of their population responsible for this. Regardless, I would hate to be an average Russian citizen for the next few years. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2785 "2022-03-19T22:36:17Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > Regardless, I would hate to be an average Russian citizen for the next few years. yep, that hangover is not going to be pretty (there are already leg. videos showing up of elderly women fighting in moscow’s supermarkets over bags of sugar) ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2786 "2022-03-19T22:37:25Z")
I have to admit that my first reaction to the invasion was “No one with a Russian passport enters a NATO country…” I realize that was very very misguided, but it was where I was at the time. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2787 "2022-03-19T22:41:05Z")
> [@Al128](#): > > yep, that hangover is not going to be pretty And the typical, centuries-long animosities that boggle the minds of a lot of North Americans are only going to get far worse. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2788 "2022-03-19T23:01:32Z")
> [@velomont](#): > > Regardless, I would hate to be an average Russian citizen for the next few years. > [@Tride](#): > > I have to admit that my first reaction to the invasion was “No one with a Russian passport enters a NATO country…” I realize that was very very misguided, but it was where I was at the time. Yesterday, at the US-Mexico border: > **[Asylum-seeking anti-war Russians at Mexico border barred from entering U.S. |...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/russians-mexico-us-border-1.6391124)** > > About three dozen would-be asylum seekers from Russia found themselves blocked from entering the U.S. on Friday, while a group of Ukrainians flashed passports and were escorted across the border. ---
**Author:** ![Tride](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tride/32/13907_2.png) [@Tride](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tride)\ **Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2789 "2022-03-19T23:14:31Z")
Yeah, that’s not right. Russian protesters are facing much worse than any protester in the US would (exceptions apply). Asylum? Maybe. Admittance as a tourist, definitely, and a work visa until this passes. ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2022, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2790 "2022-03-20T00:16:46Z")
Some Russians who have been leaving have doing so via Georgia, where they haven’t exactly been welcomed with open arms either. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2022, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2791 "2022-03-20T00:29:42Z")
> [@romansperson](#): > > This is going to be so ugly, for so long. > > [x.com](https://twitter.com/NeilPHauer/status/1505265888563453959) Internally, to Russia, Putin hasn’t been particularly tyrannical. On the world stage, he has supported horrible people, played hardball, etc. Domestically, I think he mostly leaves matters to competent people and the free market, with his contribution being to do the occasional “big thing” for people - bringing in a big sports game, building a new, giant church, etc. The picture is radically different. There’s not a lot of people who have a negative image of the guy. The idea that he’s best friends with mafia and is hardcore on assassinations isn’t in the mind of the average Russian. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2022, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2792 "2022-03-20T00:37:28Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Yesterday, at the US-Mexico border: Not just in the US. Vandalism at a Russian Community Centre in Kitsilano: > **[Police investigate after Russian Community Centre in Vancouver vandalized |...](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/russian-community-centre-vandalized-1.6374377)** > > The Vancouver Police Department is investigating a case of vandalism after the doorstep of the Russian Community Centre in Vancouver's Kitsilano neighbourhood was defaced with blue and yellow paint on Saturday. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2022, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2793 "2022-03-20T01:06:38Z")
> [@romansperson](#): > > This is going to be so ugly, for so long. Yes, as Haurer’s next tweet makes clear: > [@](#): > > And I’m saying this from Kharkiv. I think I saw more virulently anti-Russian views here than anywhere else in the country. The sense of betrayal here, of ‘how could they possibly do this to _us_’, is incredible. Of all the major cities under attack, Kharkiv had the largest Russian-speaking population, but that means nothing to Putin’s plans to “liberate” Russian-speakers in the “fake country” of Ukraine. Putin’s war is having exactly the opposite effect he planned. It has deflated the reputation of the Russian Army and increased military spending by the West, particularly Germany. And the horrible treatment of Russian-speakers in Ukraine is likely doing more to make them identify with Ukraine than could have been imagined a month ago. He’s helping to solidify a Ukrainian national identity, the complete opposite of his theory that Ukraine is part of Russia. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2022, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2794 "2022-03-20T01:22:07Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Internally, to Russia, Putin hasn’t been particularly tyrannical. By their standards, I suppose. I would not be surprised if at any point you did a Russian-in-the-street survey to the effect of “can Russia be effectively governed except by a strong, hard ruler who’ll put people in their place” and you got a majority for “no other way”. But yeah, truth is he has not given the average Russian-in-the-street a good reason to risk everything opposing him, and just enough reasons to shush up and keep his head down. The part in those reports that’s aspecially disturbing is that about the Russoukranians who communicate with relatives back in Russia proper, and those relatives answer to them with straight propaganda lines or denials or accusations that _they_ are the ones lying. I can only hope that it is just a case of their being scared of who could be listening in and code-switching back to the old ways. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2022, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2795 "2022-03-20T01:31:54Z")
Ukraine is claiming that Russia is forcibly taking Ukrainians back to Russia. > **[Russian occupiers forcibly deporting Mariupol civilians to Russia](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2022/03/19/7332840/)** > > DENIS KARLOVSKY - SATURDAY, MARCH 19, 2022, 20:14 ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2022, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2796 "2022-03-20T01:38:42Z")
What next? Will they be marched in chains at Putin’s triumph? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2022, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2797 "2022-03-20T02:42:35Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > What next? Will they be marched in chains at Putin’s triumph? If that was done publicly it would quicken Putin’s departure. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2022, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2798 "2022-03-20T03:21:32Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Ukraine is claiming that Russia is forcibly taking Ukrainians back to Russia. If this turns out to be correct, it’s pretty obvious that Russia is taking civilians for hostages. I am starting to think that Putin WANTS the west, particularly NATO to be drawn into the war. I really think he may be simply committing suicide by cop. Except nuclear weapons will be used. ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2022, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2799 "2022-03-20T03:33:30Z")
I am wondering about health issues. If he’s dying, why not take the world with him? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2022, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2800 "2022-03-20T03:39:27Z")
It would play to his ego. "look how powerful I am. I destroyed the entire world. Plus, as a sociopath, he probably does not care what happens to anyone else after he’s dead anyway. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=139) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=141)