# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 149
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2961 "2022-03-22T00:24:14Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > That would put you among the lucky ones. Yeah, and even then it would suck to be me. > [@FlikTheBlue](#): > > Probably not. The next country on the list, assuming Russia has the strength to have a list past Ukraine, will probably be Moldova. After that Finland and Sweden. I seriously doubt Russia would have any semblance of a military that can invade at that point, but only then would Putin get to NATO countries. Heck, I didn’t think he had enough to invade and take Ukraine before this happened and I still don’t. The idiot went ahead and did it anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2962 "2022-03-22T00:28:04Z")
One big reason is because authoritarianism has been popularizing itself as the answer for the last decade and a bit - with Russia and China leading the way on that. The argument against was always that authoritarian regimes were cruel and ruthless. Modern day Chinese and Russians have been living in fairly good, well managed societies that are (until now) peaceful because the ruling party trusts to “benevolent authoritarianism”. It’s like democracy without all the angst of fighting parties, handicapping itself through infighting, and fomenting division between the people. If you have a single party and a single boss over everything, the system is far more nimble and capable. They can reorient the economy, move workers around, create great works, all at the drop of a hat - just to make you, the average citizen, feel comfortable and satisfied in life that everything is well managed and all problems are solvable. But, of course, that sort of requires that they stay benevolent and it’s not clear that there’s anything built into the system to require that. And, likewise, all the problems with democracy are fixed by strengthening the republican (small s) systems that were built into the Constitution to ensure that we’re electing competent and trustworthy people. Western leaders are getting a bit worried - the systems have been falling apart, with Facebook and populists cranking all the internal conflict up to 11 - and no one wants to campaign for reducing the power of direct democracy. We really are on the edge of going back in time, globally. A few nations in the West might pull through but we’re vastly outnumbered and authoritarianism can be frighteningly nimble. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2963 "2022-03-22T00:28:29Z")
Lovely, although if I may, I would like to propose the following slight edit to the last line in keeping with the current trends in Russian generals… > But still, in matters vegetable, animal, and mineral, > I am the very model of a Russian Major… **BANG!** (thud) ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2964 "2022-03-22T00:34:01Z")
I laughed. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2965 "2022-03-22T01:04:32Z")
> [@Fiendish\_Astronaut](#): > > According to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, during the special operation in Ukraine, the Russian Armed Forces lost 9861 people killed, 16153 people were injured. “Comrades! We have not lost 20,000 soldiers, as the Nazified Ukraine leadership would have you think!” “We have only lost 9,861!” ---
**Author:** ![TreacherousCretin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/treacherouscretin/32/476_2.png) [@TreacherousCretin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TreacherousCretin)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2966 "2022-03-22T01:07:02Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > But if everyone dies for good reasons, making a choice to do what’s right in the face of aggression and cruelty, I feel like that’s a good end for humanity. “It doesn’t make a damn bit of difference _who_ wins the war to someone who’s dead.” (Yossarian) Edit: I agreed with this when I was 20 and I still agree at 71. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2967 "2022-03-22T01:10:39Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > But, of course, that sort of requires that they stay benevolent and it’s not clear that there’s anything built into the system to require that. I can’t remember which author said it, nor the exact quote, but it was something to the effect of, > It’s all very well to entrust the reins of the government to the best man for the job, but what do you do if he has a stomach ache? ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2968 "2022-03-22T01:27:11Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#): > > The US says it’s _currently_ 1,000 a day, but it’s probably increased a lot lately. bear in mind that the first 1-2 weeks they only had about 50% of their boots in Ukr. (the other half sat on the sidelines and sold off their fuel 😉 ) … so now with 100% of them in Ukr. of course the daily KIA numbers are creeping up ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2969 "2022-03-22T01:32:23Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > I understand what you’re saying, but there’s been horrific atrocities committed all around the world within our lives and the US/NATO did not intervene, and that was when the bad guys _didn’t_ have nuclear bombs. Why is this specific situation so much more important? My father fought in WW-II, As a nation it wasn’t in our direct interest to support England. .Europe fell in a very short period. There was no NATO and we just fought a horrible world war 2 decades prior. . And yet it was the right thing to do. And it took the combined efforts of many nations to do it and a lot of people died in the process. The difference is a nation that wants to gobble up other nations which were formerly a part of it. It’s an adversarial situation with the potential to repeat itself across Europe. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2970 "2022-03-22T01:35:44Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#): > > What they need now is s-300 missile defense systems to shoot down cruise missiles and ballistic missiles They’re being sent some by one nation or another getting Patriot systems to replace them. Romania? Possibly Bulgaria. ---
**Author:** ![Ferris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ferris/32/11573_2.png) [@Ferris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferris)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2971 "2022-03-22T02:09:26Z")
I have a friend in the U.K whose brother-in-law is currently fighting in Kyiv, and has other relatives stranded in Warsaw. He pointed me to an interesting development in Belarus where rail workers appear to be sabotaging the lines between Belarus and Ukraine, thus holding up Russian supply routes. It appears that Russia can’t rely on a totally compliant Belarus for continued support, which gives me a crumb of comfort. Sample article here: [https://euromaidanpress.com/2022/03/21/ukraine-warns-lukashenka-will-join-war-as-belarus-partisans-sabotage-rail-connections/](https://euromaidanpress.com/2022/03/21/ukraine-warns-lukashenka-will-join-war-as-belarus-partisans-sabotage-rail-connections/) ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 2:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2972 "2022-03-22T02:17:13Z")
[Russia Is Getting [additional] Generals Killed on the Front Lines](https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/03/21/russia-generals-dead-ukraine/) > [@](#): > > The tally of Russian generals killed in the nearly monthlong conflict—most of them one- and two-star commanders, including at least one lieutenant general—is likely the highest casualty rate among general officers in the Russian military since World War II. > > On Sunday, Mykhailo Podoliak, a top advisor to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky, said six Russian generals had been killed, calling the invading army “fully unprepared” for the fight in Ukraine. Western assessments of deaths among Russian commanders are slightly more conservative. One European diplomat familiar with Western intelligence assessments told _Foreign Policy_ on Monday that at least five Russian generals had been killed This is remarkable, although Ukraine is also suffering substantial battle loses along with the thousands of civilian deaths. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2973 "2022-03-22T02:26:46Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > How old are you, if I might ask? I’m 62 and I am really on the fence, though I’ve stated numerous times on this board that NATO should intervene. But when push comes to shove I honestly don’t know and that’s because I don’t believe that Putin is in any way predictable. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2974 "2022-03-22T02:37:17Z")
Czech Republic. ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2975 "2022-03-22T02:40:59Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > How old are you, if I might ask? I am 64 and I have a lot left to do. However, I think that global warming is going to make the planet very uncomfortable in a very short time. Humanity is on it’s way out, so what does it matter if it’s nukes or drought? Hopefully the next dominate life form will be nicer to the planet. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2976 "2022-03-22T04:12:18Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > This is remarkable, although Ukraine is also suffering substantial battle loses along with the thousands of civilian deaths. We aren’t really hearing about their casualties, but they didn’t have the biggest army, and are presumably also being ground down, suffering deaths, injuries, MIAs, and units being shocked into disorganization. ---
**Author:** ![Rick\_Kitchen](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rick_kitchen/32/522_2.png) [@Rick\_Kitchen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick_Kitchen)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2977 "2022-03-22T04:24:55Z")
Russia and Japan have been trying to establish a peace treaty ever since World War 2, and Russia announced recently that they have broken off talks with Japan due to Japan’s support for Ukraine. And now Japan has announced that they are monitoring Russian ships traveling between Japanese islands. > **[Japan spots Russian amphibious ships traveling between its islands](https://news.yahoo.com/japan-spots-russian-amphibious-ships-161608407.html)** > > Four landing ship tanks, including one with its deck full of military trucks, were seen sailing in the Pacific Ocean westbound in the middle of last week, likely heading to Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2978 "2022-03-22T04:25:46Z")
> [@Lamoral](#): > > Maybe this is a minority opinion - and I have no credentials to back it up beyond a layman’s understanding of the conflict and my own intuition - but I can’t still can’t see how sending military aid to Ukraine is going to do anything but prolong the conflict and push Russia closer and closer to escalating with more powerful bombings and eventually tactical nuclear weapons. With this logic, any time an aggressor has nukes, or even just a lot of power - might as well roll over and let them have what they want. Saddam’s Iraq wants Kuwait in 1990? Hey, let him have it, if we intervene it will just prolong the conflict. Would you prefer the Ukrainians just…get conquered? ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2979 "2022-03-22T04:29:30Z")
I lived through the cold war. It wasn’t unusual to clash in proxy wars. The Russians supplied MiGs and pilots in the Korean war. Russian advisors were in N Vietnam. The US _did not_ bomb them. We bombed other areas. Biden and NATO are making a mistake tiptoeing around Putin. We can and should provide MiGs to Ukraine. The red line is we can’t attack Russian territory. We can’t bomb missile sites in Crimea or Russia. I wouldn’t put NATO pilots in Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![JaneDoe42](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/janedoe42/32/14104_2.png) [@JaneDoe42](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JaneDoe42)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/2980 "2022-03-22T04:49:17Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > The Russians supplied MiGs and pilots in the Korean war. My father, a Korean War Vet, didn’t often talk about his time there except for funny stories like their still blowing up while they were gone and coming back to a stinky mess. Once in a while, Dad would get drunk enough to talk about combat. He told me about several pretty nasty battles up with the White Russian (Cossacks) infantry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=148) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=150)