# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news\ **Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 155
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3081 "2022-03-22T21:05:31Z")
Look what the Russian army found in the back of the cupboard: a Maxim machine gun (first in service in 1886). [https://nitter-eu.translate.goog/pic/media%2FFOeN99wXsAAXGss.jpg%3Fname%3Dorig?\_x\_tr\_sl=ru&\_x\_tr\_tl=en&\_x\_tr\_hl=en&\_x\_tr\_pto=wapp](https://nitter-eu.translate.goog/pic/media%2FFOeN99wXsAAXGss.jpg%3Fname%3Dorig?_x_tr_sl=ru&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp) ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3082 "2022-03-22T21:07:53Z")
That could be the “independent militia” in the areas Russia wants to contest which I’ve heard are armed with the stuff too old for the Russians. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3083 "2022-03-22T21:16:16Z")
Maybe. To be fair, I saw a video of the Ukrainians test-firing a Maxim too. ---
**Author:** ![gnoitall](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/bb73d2/32.png) [@gnoitall](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gnoitall)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3084 "2022-03-22T21:17:05Z")
I would jokingly call that a Donbass technical, but really it’s not very technical at all. ---
**Author:** ![keeganst94](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/a6a055/32.png) [@keeganst94](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/keeganst94)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3085 "2022-03-22T21:17:58Z")
Probably not. There’s just so much more energy stored in nuclear bonds than there are in chemical bonds that you can’t get anywhere near the same energy density. For reference, the energy density of enriched uranium is 76 000 000 Megajoules per kilo, whereas TNT is about 4.6 (figures seem to vary, but you get the idea). I doubt that there’s a practical way around this. As always, there is a relevant xkcd: > **[1162: Log Scale - explain xkcd](https://www.explainxkcd.com/wiki/index.php/1162:_Log_Scale)** > > Explain xkcd is a wiki dedicated to explaining the webcomic xkcd. Go figure. Edit: That’ll teach me to read the thread before I post. Basically, what Dr.Strangelove said. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3086 "2022-03-22T21:21:18Z")
> [@Folacin](#): > > I don’t think there is any real defense against artillery (aka 16-inch (or whatever) shells) - basically a big chunk of metal coming on an arcing trajectory. In Harry Turtledove’s _Worldwar: In the Balance_ aliens attack Earth in the middle of WWII. Early on the Wehrmacht _in the Ukraine_ manages to place an 800mm railroad gun within range of an alien enclave and fire a shell. Not having gun artillery for over 10,000 years the alien defense officer cooly launches anti-missiles at it – then watches in dismay as the round keeps right on coming to destroy one of their space ships. The Germans get another shell off and destroy a second ship but before the third, counter battery missiles destroy the gun and its crew. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 9:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3087 "2022-03-22T21:44:11Z")
One of my favorite parts of the books ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3088 "2022-03-22T21:54:38Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > A bit off topic, but is it possible, from a chemistry standpoint, to one day develop conventional explosives that are powerful enough (when put in a MOAB-sized bomb) to be equivalent to a very weak/small nuke? It would probably have to be dozens or hundreds of times more powerful than TNT. > > Such weapons, if developed, could be used to achieve maybe 1/10 or 1/3 the effect of tactical nukes while still saying, “Hey, we haven’t crossed the nuclear threshold.” Already done. See “mother of all bombs” (US) and “father of all bombs”(USSR/Russia). The MOAB is supposed to be around 11 tons TNT and the FOAB 44 tons TNT. Compare that to the Davy Crockett tactical nuke with a yield of either 10 tons or 20 tons depending on the exact warhead used. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3089 "2022-03-22T22:05:23Z")
In the end there’s only so much chemical energy a solid substance can contain before reaching the point where it would completely vaporize into individual atoms. That was what was so astonishing about radium when it was first discovered: a simple measurement showed that each week it released an amount of energy sufficient to vaporize an equal mass of any known substance. It didn’t seem possible for that much energy to be contained in the radium, to the point where energy being created out of nothing was no less fantastic than any other hypothesis. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3090 "2022-03-22T22:24:22Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I would hope that Ukraine has some limited anti-ship capability. Greece and Bulgaria both use the more modern version of the Exocet, so getting them in theater would be easy. Hell, _Georgia_ might even have some left in stock. The Soviets should have left Shore Batteries. I can’t imagine a undefended costal city in that region. It’s old artillery but a shell could still heavily damage a ship. Electronic defenses would be useless. ---
**Author:** ![carnut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnut/32/3531_2.png) [@carnut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnut)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3091 "2022-03-22T22:33:26Z")
Yesss. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3092 "2022-03-22T22:34:44Z")
But what does it matter if Ukraine wins militarily if its civilians are all dead? ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3093 "2022-03-22T22:37:17Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > I read that article, but still don’t understand. Ukrainian cities are being destroyed; Ukrainian civilians are being killed en masse. How could that possibly be considered “winning”? Winning or losing isn’t determined by how many people are killed, it’s determined by who ends up in control of the country once the killing ends. The US killed a hell of a lot more Vietnamese than North Vietnam killed Americans, but that didn’t matter; in the end, North Vietnam won. ---
**Author:** ![velomont](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/8491ac/32.png) [@velomont](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/velomont)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3094 "2022-03-22T22:39:00Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > But what does it matter if Ukraine wins militarily if its civilians are all dead? Good question. It’s like the saying about how the operation was a success but the patient died. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3095 "2022-03-22T22:45:46Z")
If Ukraine is decimated, but wins militarily, there will be plane loads of western cash to help them rebuild. If Ukraine is decimated, but loses militarily and is absorbed by Russia, they’re never getting significantly rebuilt. Russia is broke, and what money it has, certainly won’t be going to those ungrateful Ukrainian bastards. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3096 "2022-03-22T22:53:05Z")
One other question about a small-yield nuke, even in the 10 ton range. I assume that it would still have most of the characteristics of a larger one (like the double flash, depending on the time between emissions) and that it could be spotted if the line of sight was right with our current surveillance tech. Which of course means we’d know right away that it not being a nuke is a lie. Or am I wrong about that? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3097 "2022-03-22T22:56:18Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > But what does it matter if Ukraine wins militarily if its civilians are all dead? Because they’re **not** all dead. Not even remotely close. The number of Ukrainian civilians killed thus far is a tiny percentage of the overall population. This is like saying that al-Qaeda defeated America on 9/11 because “all American civilians died.” ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3098 "2022-03-22T23:02:43Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > Compare that to the Davy Crockett tactical nuke with a yield of either 10 tons or 20 tons depending on the exact warhead used. Davy Crockett’s blast yield was insignificant, as it was built to be a neutron bomb. It was designed to do troops in with a high flux of very hard to block neutron radiation. Pretty horrific, really. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3099 "2022-03-22T23:23:25Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > If Ukraine is decimated, but loses militarily and is absorbed by Russia, they’re never getting significantly rebuilt. Russia is broke, and what money it has, certainly won’t be going to those ungrateful Ukrainian bastards. Yes this. This would be the worst-case scenario for Ukraine. Russia would keep them broken and destitute to serve as a lesson for others. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2022, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3100 "2022-03-22T23:28:12Z")
oops > **[TikToker arrested after posting clip of Ukrainian military vehicles parked...](https://www.businessinsider.com/tiktoker-arrested-filmed-ukraine-military-near-mall-later-bombed-2022-3)** > > Officials have urged Ukrainians not to share footage of military equipment or checkpoints on social media. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=154) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037.md?page=156)