# Russia invades Ukraine {2022-02-24} (Part 1)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037
**Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share
**Tags:** ukraine-invasion, breaking-news
**Created:** [February 24, 2022, 8:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037 "2022-02-24T08:30:03Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 159
### Author:  [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2022, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3161 "2022-03-23T17:26:59Z")
> [@velomont](#):
>
> What someone needs to do is get a civilian drone capable of flying a preprogrammed route modified to fly over Russian cities and drop a bunch of leaflets over a few blocks of crowded streets.
Thanks to modern technology, it really isn’t that much harder for Russians to find the truth than it is for your typical American Fox News viewer. The question is whether they will seek it out, and if they do, will they believe it when they see it.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2022, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3162 "2022-03-23T17:53:32Z")
Putin be like this:
[ ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnPagm-DDUA)
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### Author:  [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2022, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3163 "2022-03-23T17:53:56Z")
> [@GreenWyvern](#):
>
> The Ukrainians [have captured](https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3436630-ukrainian-military-capture-lieutenant-colonel-of-russian-army.html) a Russian lieutenant colonel, Alexander Olegovich Koshel.
>
> He’s the head of an information and psychological warfare group. The Russians tried to free him, but failed.
I both pity him and don’t. Odd feeling.
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### Author:  [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2022, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3164 "2022-03-23T17:54:40Z")
Doesn’t sound like there’s any end in sight.
Things will accelerate after Mariupol falls. Russians can attack Ukraine forces from three directions. I really hope the new weapons have been distributed to front line troops.
Live Blog. Bolding is mine.
> [@](#):
>
> The Guardian’s defence editor, Dan Sabbagh, has been speaking to officials in the west with knowledge of the situation in [Ukraine](https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine) to understand their perspective on how the conflict is evolving:
>
> Western officials’ “greatest concern” for Ukraine’s military prospects is that Russia is grinding its way to an inevitable and bloody **victory in Mariupol, which will in turn free up its force to move north and attack Kyiv’s elite troops defending the Donbas from three directions.**
>
> They say that Russia has lost the ability to fight an offensive on “multiple axes” because of the casualties it has suffered - around 7,000 to 8,000 killed - on its disastrous offensive and is now focusing on one principal battle at a time while its attack on the Ukrainian capital has essentially stalled.
>
> “I think the challenge is once Mariupol falls and is taken, and I think there’s a grim reality around Mariupol with the kind of reckless and inhumane nature of the operation there,” one said. An estimated 100,000 people remain in the bombed and encircled port city.
>
> Another official said this would give Russia “the opportunity to bring in more firepower and to move north”, which could allow Moscow’s forces to encircle the Ukranian’s most experienced fighting forces in the east of the country. “This is probably the area where we have the greatest concern,” the official added.
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### Author:  [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2022, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3165 "2022-03-23T18:01:20Z")
I don’t understand why the Ukrainian numerical advantage hasn’t come to bear yet. No matter how many Russian troops are in Ukraine, doesn’t the present-populace of Ukrainians who are willing and able to fight outnumber them at least 20-to-1? Why hasn’t that led to Russians getting steamrolled by sheer numbers at this point?
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### Author:  [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2022, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3166 "2022-03-23T18:02:56Z")
If they were to approach Mariupol and engage in street warfare that would happen. But they are staying out of the city and just bombing it to hell instead. If that works there, they will try to duplicate that in Odessa and other cities. Putin must think leveling Ukraine to rubble counts as a win.
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### Author:  [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2022, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3167 "2022-03-23T18:05:55Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> I don’t understand why the Ukrainian numerical advantage hasn’t come to bear yet. No matter how many Russian troops are in Ukraine, doesn’t the present-populace of Ukrainians who are willing and able to fight outnumber them at least 20-to-1? Why hasn’t that led to Russians getting steamrolled by sheer numbers at this point?
Even if the Ukrainians have enough guns and ammo to provide that amount of people - which I seriously doubt - they can only be used for defensive purposes. For offensive operations you need trained, organized troops and logistics, as the Russians have learned to their detriment.
Also, actual military technology helps, a lot.
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### Author:  [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2022, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3168 "2022-03-23T18:08:03Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> I don’t understand why the Ukrainian numerical advantage hasn’t come to bear yet. No matter how many Russian troops are in Ukraine, doesn’t the present-populace of Ukrainians who are willing and able to fight outnumber them at least 20-to-1? Why hasn’t that led to Russians getting steamrolled by sheer numbers at this point?
How many firearms does the average Ukrainian own? I doubt it’s anything like it is in the US.
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### Author:  [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2022, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3169 "2022-03-23T18:09:45Z")
From the latest ongoing CNN updates, looks like NATO is finally stepping up its involvement, bolstering forces in neighbouring countries.
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### Author:  [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2022, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3170 "2022-03-23T18:13:48Z")
> [@Velocity](#):
>
> I don’t understand why the Ukrainian numerical advantage hasn’t come to bear yet.
Just throwing warm bodies into battle hasn’t been an effective strategy since at least the Korean War. And even then it came at a horrific cost for the Red Chinese who only managed a stalemate. Artillery is still king.
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### Author:  [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2022, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3171 "2022-03-23T18:29:25Z")
> [@GreenWyvern (quoting Bloomberg)](#):
>
> Putin Adviser Chubais Quits Over Ukraine War, Leaves Russia
This is a case where break-up by text would not only be appropriate but advisable – and send the text from another country.
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### Author:  [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2022, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3172 "2022-03-23T18:35:21Z")
> [@Airbeck](#):
>
> Putin must think leveling Ukraine to rubble counts as a win.
Winning the hearts and minds of the populace. We should tell him how well that worked in Vietnam.
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### Author:  [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2022, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3173 "2022-03-23T18:35:32Z")
Question: While it would undoubtedly take too long to train Ukrainian pilots on, say, US warplanes, what about American former fighter pilots who have already gone to Ukraine to join the fight? I don’t know how many there are among the American former military who’ve gone over there, but Ukraine had so few of its own that surely any would be a help?
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### Author:  [@nelliebly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nelliebly)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2022, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3174 "2022-03-23T18:36:11Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#):
>
> For one thing, that’s probably emptied the paper trays, so without cooperation on the other end they won’t get any more printed.
It doesn’t take cooperation. If someone hopes to use that printer, they’re going to have to refill the paper tray and hope the anti-Putin copies stop. Or the next person will. And consider, too, that the messages include instructions on how to access an open-source browser that bypasses Russian state-censored browsers. While there may be few such people, doubt tends to spread, and Putin’s support, while widespread, is apparently fragile.
Besides, Anonymous won’t be using this tactic long. It isn’t their first hacktivist attempt in this war, and it won’t be the last. I suspect that like the preceding hacks, the real targets are Russian leadership, which is bound to hear about the information dump, and the message is, “You can’t shut us–and the truth–out.”
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### Author:  [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2022, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3175 "2022-03-23T18:41:01Z")
> [@nelliebly](#):
>
> It doesn’t take cooperation. If someone hopes to use that printer, they’re going to have to refill the paper tray and hope the anti-Putin copies stop. Or the next person will.
If it were me, and I didn’t want them, I’d put just a couple of sheets in the printer, check to see if they’d stopped, and if they hadn’t figure that I just couldn’t use that printer, at least unless I could get it repaired. If it’s going to keep printing the same thing over and over, I can’t use it for anything else anyway.
> [@nelliebly](#):
>
> And consider, too, that the messages include instructions on how to access an open-source browser that bypasses Russian state-censored browsers.
Which is part of the reason why I had hoped they were distributed over thousands, not less than two hundred, locations.
And again, some people will be too pissed off to read them. ETA: especially if it turns out that they’ll never again be able to use that printer for anything else.
– I’m not saying they shouldn’t have done it. I’m saying that it’s too bad they apparently weren’t able to do it in a better version.
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### Author:  [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2022, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3176 "2022-03-23T18:49:13Z")
> [@Airbeck](#):
>
> Putin must think leveling Ukraine to rubble counts as a win
Yes, that is the strategy at this point; Kill as many civilians as possible, and destroy as much of Ukraine as possible. That’s all they are able to do.
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### Author:  [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2022, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3177 "2022-03-23T19:18:48Z")
Auferre, trucidare, rapere, falsis nominibus imperium, atque, ubi solitudinem faciunt, pacem appellant.
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### Author:  [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2022, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3178 "2022-03-23T19:24:33Z")
_Translation_: [To ravage, to slaughter, to usurp under false titles, they call empire, and where they make a desert, they call it peace](https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Tacitus#:~:text=Auferre%2C%20trucidare%2C%20rapere%2C%20falsis,desert%2C%20they%20call%20it%20peace.) .
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### Author:  [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2022, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3179 "2022-03-23T20:41:26Z")
> [@Euphonious\_Polemic](#):
>
> > [@Airbeck](#):
> >
> > Putin must think leveling Ukraine to rubble counts as a win
>
> Yes, that is the strategy at this point; Kill as many civilians as possible, and destroy as much of Ukraine as possible. That’s all they are able to do.
Yeah. I doubt it was the strategy at the start – I think most likely Putin thought he could effectively take over a functioning country that had taken very little damage. By now it’s clear there’s no way he can do that. The only kind of win he can now possibly claim is destruction; so, being who he is, that’s what he’s now going for.
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### Author:  [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)
#### Post date: [March 23, 2022, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/russia-invades-ukraine-2022-02-24-part-1/960037/3180 "2022-03-23T20:45:06Z")
On the Russians caught in the Hostomel-Irpin-Bucha pocket:
> [@](#):
>
> I don’t think that we should expect to see Russian forces in Hostomel-Irpin-Bucha effectively locked in a death trap in the nearest time.
> Ukrainian military will most likely continue breaking their supply lines and exhausting them in mobile defense along roads.
>
> I don’t think this large enemy group is exhausted enough for that. And I don’t think Ukrainian forces have enough control north and south of Bucha, including the Zhytomyr highway — at least, not yet.
> We’ll see what happens next.
>
> IMHO it’s too early for Ukrainian forces to completely switch from mobile defense and mount a big time attack in this area — the command still wants to save and as much power as possible.
> Russian air power in the region is not 100% suppressed yet.
>
> Everything written above is nothing but my speculation as a witness, of course.
>
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